Carver or Adcom

[Xenogear]

I've been browsing the various vintage power amps being offered on ebay. Generally, which power amp would you prefer, given a choice between an Adcom or a Carver? What are the advantages of one design, versus the other? Which one would have a tendency to lean towards a warmer sound, given the same set of speakers?

Thanks

 

[electricdick]

Carver

X.

I own a Carver and I think the best part about the C-1000 is it is very simple to operate (unlike my Denon 3805!) and is powerful at 200 Watts/channel @ 5.1. I have had reliability issues, in my case 60 hz. hum, and from what I read it is not unusual for Carver equipment to require maintenance.

You should check out the forum that is dedicated to Carver equipment.

D ick

 

[electricdick]

Carver Forum

X.

Here is the name of the forum: www.carveraudio.com

There are a few Carver service technicians that post all the time and are a great help...to say the least! The other posters are always friendly and very helpful too. Really, a great forum.

If you have a specific model in mind I am sure you will find lots of information in the old posts there or you can just ask.

D ick

 

[JoeE SP9]

I don't know what kind of reliability you can expect with Carvers. I do know that Adcom amps are basically bulletproof. They work for years and years into all kinds of weird loads. They don't overheat and they don't break. The GFA 535 and 545 series are the ones I have experience with.

 

[audiofox]

I have three Adcom amps-a GFA-555 modified by Musical Concepts (original Nelson Pass design, modified with BlackGate PS and signal path caps, schottky diodes in the PS), a GFA-555 II (better protection cuircuit) and an Adcom GFA-5503. All three are extremely reliable but sound different-the two 555s are bipolar transistor output stages and the 5503 is a MOSFET output (advertised to sound more "tube-like"). I have driven my Dynaudio Aries towers (4 ohm nominal, 88 dB SPL) with all three, and they all pump out plenty of power to drive the inefficient Dynaudios to levels that will make your ears bleed (with no audible distortion). If you want a turn-it-on-and forget-it power amp, you can't go wrong with the Adcoms (new or old models). BTW, Rotel is another make you should definitely consider-they are a direct competitor of Adcom in the mid-fi audio equipment market and also make high quality, reliable amplifiers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I've been browsing the various vintage power amps being offered on ebay. Generally, which power amp would you prefer, given a choice between an Adcom or a Carver? What are the advantages of one design, versus the other? Which one would have a tendency to lean towards a warmer sound, given the same set of speakers?

Thanks

They are both good amps. Buy the one that can meet your needs, flexibility, etc. But the most watts/$ if they both meet your needs equally well otherwise.

 

[Xenogear]

amps

I'm just wondering. I have an Adcom 545II. I thought it might have had a problem with one channel dropping out, but it doesn't do that anymore. I can't figure it out. I'm not going to replace it unless the problem comes back. When I do, I might go with Carver just to see what magnetic field amplification is all about. The Carvers also have a nice style to them, with their dual meters and all.

 

[AVRat]

My Carver M1.5t doesn't have meters and I've been using it for 15 years, without a single problem.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'm just wondering. I have an Adcom 545II. I thought it might have had a problem with one channel dropping out, but it doesn't do that anymore. I can't figure it out. I'm not going to replace it unless the problem comes back. When I do, I might go with Carver just to see what magnetic field amplification is all about. The Carvers also have a nice style to them, with their dual meters and all.

If that amp cut out on you in the past but OK now, perhaps it has a cold solder joint someplace that is making contact now but may fail in the future.

 

[pbarach1]

But if your Carver breaks...

The corporate parent of Carver has recently shut down their Carver service center. Although there is a repair shop that has apparently bought the parts inventory from Carver's corporate parent, there are still some Carver parts that are no longer available (e.g., the transformer used in the m1.0t, a popular Carver amp from the late '80's). Also, Carver had some excellent repair technicians, but they were all laid off when the service center closed. I don't know what the parts availability is for older Adcom units, but clearly there are problems in repairing some older Carver units.

 

[bandit]

pbarach brings up a good point on the closing of the Carver service center. It sounds like parts could be a problem down the road.

I've heard (actually saw on these threads) that Adcom will still update their amps. If my memory is good I believe I saw that they would re-build a 545 for around $350. That is not cheap - but I've had mine for about 18yrs without a glitch and to get another 18 flawless years maybe its a bargain?... I think they are well built.

 

[Xenogear]

adcom

mtrycrafts - Thanks again for the reply. When that happens, then I will probably search ebay again. That's what made me think of the Carver. Lots of them available. I also see an occasional Nakamichi PA-5 that is also right around the same power as the 545II. Which of the two do you think is better, between the PA-5 and the 545II? In the used market, the PA-5 will cost a lot more, but still way below what they normally sold for when new. So I may be willing to go in that direction if I can find one in great shape, that is if my Adcom where to fail on me. I won't be shopping if the Adcom continues to run.

pbarach - Yeah, that is important. Parts availability could be a problem. The Adcom people told me that all part of the 545II can be replaced except the boards. They no longer have any boards for replacement.

bandit- That is exactly the price that Adcom gave me over the phone. They change everything except the boards. Basically assuming the boards are in great shape, $350 gets you a new amp.

A couple more questions, if you all don't mind. We've been talking about vintage amps. Are the newer amps on the current market significantly better sounding than their vintage counterparts? Has there been any breakthrough design or technology in amplification during the last dozen years? Also, given the same power ratings, which brand would you prefer (Adcom, Sony ES, Carver)?

Thanks

 

[bandit]

I don't think you will notice alot of difference in a well made amplifier or a well made amplifier from 15 years ago provided both are functioning properly. I think that most advances in audio technology have happened in the processing of signals (dolby digital etc) not necassarily amplification. As far as brands go - as I mentioned before I have had good luck with Adcom. I also own a Sony DA555ES 5.1 channel reciever rated at 120w/ch X5 that in my opinion really puts out some clean power. Yes - I know it is getting dated but I've had a hard time justifiying it's replacement. (I'd like an HK7300 or the Yamaha 2600 from what I've read here) I've heard that some have had reliablity issues with this unit - but I've not had a single problem since I bought it several years ago. Frankly - I believe it can drive my JBL240Ti's at least as well as my Adcom 545 could. (this suprised me) I've someties wondered if Sony was somewhat conservative in rating this unit at 120 watts/channel in two channel mode as the Adcom was 100 watts/channel. At lower volumes I could hear know difference between the two - I just think the Sony ES could drive the speakers to louder levels.

Probably one of biggest advances in amplification though is the development of the class D (digital/switching etc.) type amplifiers. Although you could call this a technical advancement - I believe it is only an advancement in the sense of efficiency and manufacturing costs. (its makes a 900w subwoofer amplifier affordable) Although I think they are ok for subwoofers - I don't believe they are the best for full range amplification as they require steep filters on their outputs to filter out the switching frequency. There have been theads here that have clearly shown their disadvantages. I believe I saw a o-scope picture where you could see the spikes riding on the intended musical waveform. Yuck.

Sorry for rambling on - I hope this helps : )

Bandit

 

[mtrycrafts]

mtrycrafts - Thanks again for the reply. When that happens, then I will probably search ebay again. That's what made me think of the Carver. Lots of them available. I also see an occasional Nakamichi PA-5 that is also right around the same power as the 545II. Which of the two do you think is better, between the PA-5 and the 545II? In the used market, the PA-5 will cost a lot more, but still way below what they normally sold for when new. So I may be willing to go in that direction if I can find one in great shape, that is if my Adcom where to fail on me. I won't be shopping if the Adcom continues to run.

I am not intimately familiar with them but, they are good amps from competent designers and companies. I would not go for the bragging rights. Power, flexibility to meet your needs, and watts/$$.

A couple more questions, if you all don't mind. We've been talking about vintage amps. Are the newer amps on the current market significantly better sounding than their vintage counterparts? Has there been any breakthrough design or technology in amplification during the last dozen years? Also, given the same power ratings, which brand would you prefer (Adcom, Sony ES, Carver)? Thanks

As was posted, good amps are good amps whether they are 15 years old or 1 year old.
The newer ones happen to have the latest processing capability that you may need now or near future. If you don't need any of that flexibility, that older unit for less $$ will do you very well too.
Amps sound is way over rated and over hyped. Audio is not immune from urban legends, bs or plain voodoo.

 

[mulester7]

.....a guy who works for McIntosh told me the newer Mc amps and pre-amps are more transparent than their vintage counterparts....I'm not pushing Mc equipment bought new....I will push a site though, where you can find both vintage and the newest models of McIntosh used, at very decent prices....a 1998 MC500 with 500 a side for 1400....not sure what year, but there's also a MC2205 for 600....both have the pretty blue meters, are claimed to work perfectly, and all the lamps work....all kinds of other McIntosh stuff as well, again I say, at very decent prices....AudioWeb....not sure if it's dot-com or dot-net or connect-the-dots....anyhow, this radio spot was brought to you by Kellogg's, and Mtrycraft's Feed And Grain Store .......