Carnegie Bookshelves = Rear Surround=Nada !

[sawzalot]

So I have the Carnegie Towers CST and yes they are awesome so far, I wish they were just a bit bigger, my dedicated room is rather large, but they are a definite upgrade over the Klipsch.
I have just recently strayed away from home (AH) and found a decent sale on some mint Carnegie products to complete my 5.2 set-up. I bought the CSB-1 (pair) and the CSC-1 (single) from Sonny over at the Shack and the work needed to bring them up to snuff was already done by Danny Ritchie so it made it that much easier to buy them.
The center integrated almost perfect like and I really do enjoy the movie soundtracks more so when I can hear the dialogue perfectly as opposed to going phantom center which always made me work somewhat to hear certain dialogue.The bookshelves sound incredible no doubt, I have never really owned and or compared books before but hearing these for the first time I must say they are really detailed and just sound great.
I only have one huge problemo, I thought I would usde these as rear surrounds but it just doesnt seem feasible at all, by the time I got them positioned and pointed in the right direction they looked like a complete albatross hanging on the rear wall, just horrible, they sounded great for as much as a surround gives you but no way no how could they stay. The problem is the wall behind is about 6 feet behind the seating position and open for the width of the room 16 feet and 8 feet high then the gable becomes solid there for another 11 feet to the ridge so the speakers have to go up about 9 feet off the floor and then have a drastic angle toward seating. I could not have this set up with the wall mount tilted as a toe in and a toe/angle down with a some what a bigger bookshelf like the carnegie, just no WAF at all.zero nada nathan no way, no wonder why I was 2.2 set up for so long, I may be too picky but there has to be a better way. I really thought that the Legacy Phantom Best Price - Legacy Phantom HD, Easy Pay available! Surround was exactly what the doctor ordered but the cost is way over any budget I could even pretend to have.
I would like a similar looking rear surround but I just couldnt find any so I thought about trying something different and then I saw these,BIC DV5 Dual Channel Surround Speaker | 303-470 I am not the biggest fan of this type of speaker but for the cost involved and the return option I figured it was worth a shot. i would like to get some input from you guys/gals about rear surrounds and so on , Thanks sawz.

 

[Adam]

Reading that your wife thinks it too big just reminds me that Irv left.

You've probably done it before, but do you have a picture of your rear/side walls that you'd be willing to post? Can you place the CSB-1's near the back of the side walls versus behind you?

 

[sawzalot]

Reading that your wife thinks it too big just reminds me that Irv left.

You've probably done it before, but do you have a picture of your rear/side walls that you'd be willing to post? Can you place the CSB-1's near the back of the side walls versus behind you?

I will post up a sketch of all walls in a little bit but to answer your question , there is no way to get them on the sides, the surrounds, whether they are side surrounds or the rear surrounds must go on that back upper wall. I started to look at different (in-ceiling) models knowing full well that they are not optimal for most HT set ups but if they do the job and look ok I guess I could deal with them for the movie watching aspect of Home Theater. I ordered the Bic surrounds I linked to above, if they dont cut it I will send them back and explore the in ceiling and or some DIY rear surround with the best shape for proper disbursement of sound both on and off axis.I am always open to suggestions though.

 

[fuzz092888]

There are these, I've heard a few pairs of John's rear surrounds and have two pair right now. He also makes a pair of floor standing rear surrounds.

Onwalllist


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[sawzalot]

There are these, I've heard a few pairs of John's rear surrounds and have two pair right now. He also makes a pair of floor standing rear surrounds.

Onwalllist


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These look very interesting, Thanks for the link.
I know there must be a diy that copies the legacy phantom surround out there as well, I really like the design of that speaker.
I guess I could build a box that would hug the wall and have the angle I need to direct sound towards the seating area but I just dont want to wing it and hope for the best

 

[sawzalot]

I got caught up in too much reading about the perfect surround speaker and maybe I am completely over the top with this. I want to link an article by Floyd and get some input on his findings from you guys/gals. Here is the link-Loudspeakers: Objective evaluations - Part 4: Measurements of real-world consumer loudspeakers | EE Times

Now if I am reading this correctly and understanding his thoughts behind his evalutions wouldnt a wider yet more narrow speaker work best for rear surrounds almost center channel speaker sized. Thanks sawz.

 

[fuzz092888]

I got caught up in too much reading about the perfect surround speaker and maybe I am completely over the top with this. I want to link an article by Floyd and get some input on his findings from you guys/gals. Here is the link-Loudspeakers: Objective evaluations - Part 4: Measurements of real-world consumer loudspeakers | EE Times

Now if I am reading this correctly and understanding his thoughts behind his evalutions wouldnt a wider yet more narrow speaker work best for rear surrounds almost center channel speaker sized. Thanks sawz.

In some ways that doesn't make much sense to use the old style rear center channel because the main con of a horizontally aligned center is weak horizontal dispersion without adding more drivers and thus increasing cost. Besides, when movies are mixed, they are using vertically aligned speakers which means in order to get the most realistic playback you would need something similar.

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[sawzalot]

I think I'll try out the BIC America rear surrounds linked above,I did order them after all. I know they won't be angled down but maybe just maybe they will provide enough added to the mix to compliment everything, 45 day return policy lets me figure it out.

 

[sawzalot]

Update to the above referenced BIC America surrounds , two out of three of these came to the house broken, the magnet was completely broken off of the driver assembly on the tweeter in one box and both tweeters in the other box and the third speaker well lets just say it is completely useless without the others. I sent the two back about two weeks ago for replacements and they finally let me know that there are none available at all due to the sale price the stock has been depleted and that's all she wrote,they will not be re stocked , so the third speaker has been sent back and I am now back to square one.

 

[j_garcia]

Update to the above referenced BIC America surrounds , two out of three of these came to the house broken, the magnet was completely broken off of the driver assembly on the tweeter in one box and both tweeters in the other box and the third speaker well lets just say it is completely useless without the others. I sent the two back about two weeks ago for replacements and they finally let me know that there are none available at all due to the sale price the stock has been depleted and that's all she wrote,they will not be re stocked , so the third speaker has been sent back and I am now back to square one.

WOW that sucks. I've been using my old GRs as surrounds and it seems to be a good blend. The tweeters are softer, but the mids are very similar since the Carnegie midbass driver is based off the GR midbass. They don't really come built though. If you have someone who could build them, Danny does offer a surround model. A buddy of mine built a pair and they do a very good job and WAF is pretty high:

A/V-1RS

 

[sawzalot]

WOW that sucks. I've been using my old GRs as surrounds and it seems to be a good blend. The tweeters are softer, but the mids are very similar since the Carnegie midbass driver is based off the GR midbass. They don't really come built though. If you have someone who could build them, Danny does offer a surround model. A buddy of mine built a pair and they do a very good job and WAF is pretty high:

A/V-1RS

I like the looks of these, how do you think they would work with my ceiling being a vaulted ceiling. These would mount behind my seating area about 6 feet behind and about 8.5 to 9 feet up then my ceiling would start about 2 feet higher up however the ceiling is angled at about 35 degrees the highest point of the ceiling is in the exact center of the two rear surrounds. I think it could work since the sound is directed away from the rear wall towards the ceiling then the ceiling would bounce the sound back down and towards the seating area, in theory anyway.

 

[j_garcia]

My buddy has a flat ceiling, so they work well for him. I was going to ask if yours was angled or vaulted, as that could be a different story and I'm not sure how they'd work. Since they work almost entirely by reflection, they'd probably still be OK and actually could even be an improvement depending on where you sit. You can control the dispersion somewhat by adjusting the distance from the ceiling and/or the angle of the cabinet were it attaches to the wall.

My ceiling in my house is probably 35 deg also and I have room for them so I've considered them also, but I already have the A/V-1s and room to place them on stands. Current system is 2.0 in this house though.

 

[sawzalot]

Thanks John I appreciate your response to my thread. I like the input as it gives me ideas along the way, sawz.