Car deal from hell

[psbfan9]

I haven't had a car for a while. My wife and I figured out ways to get along with just one. Since I have been laid off we've had to cut back and having one car was one way to do it. After saving, I had $4000.00 to finally buy a car. I found a 1997 Toyota Avalon with 141,000 miles for $4000.00. I test drove it and it ran okay. I went back and drove it again. I looked up reviews and of course they were all positive. "I love my Avalon" and so on.
Did I mention the guy I bought the car from is a mechanic? He told me it was a customer's car and he maintained it since it they bought it and, it was in perfect mechanical order. Yeah right!
I'm checking out my new car and realize the oil is a quart and the coolant in the over flow tank is dark. Now it hits me I should take it take to my mechanic and have them check it out.
Blown head gasket, desperately needs tune up, valve cover leaking, trans fluid is dark and sticky serpentine belts are cracked....$2400.00 in repairs. I told them to do the work. While the heads are off, they notice there is a considerable sludge build up. They called me so i could it myself. The sludge is so bad it can be scooped off the valve cover.
I'm feeling so foolish right now. I can't believe I didn't take the car to be checked out before I bought it.
Last night I decided that I would call the past owners of the car and see what they had to say. The first thing she said was "Yeah, we didn't want to spend the money to fix it" I felt sick. So I went to the guy I bought the car from and said I talked to the past owners of the car and he got a vacant look on his face like he was thinking "OH sh!$!" I told him to buy the car back or pay for the repair bill. He said he would think about it and call me tonight or tomorrow morning.
The thing that bothers me is that the guy lied. The thing that REALLY bothers me, is when it comes down to it, this is my fault for not getting the car checked out before I bought it.

 

[Alex2507]

Wow, I have never recommended the use of the 'L' word before in my life ... lawyer.

 

[lsiberian]

I haven't had a car for a while. My wife and I figured out ways to get along with just one. Since I have been laid off we've had to cut back and having one car was one way to do it. After saving, I had $4000.00 to finally buy a car. I found a 1997 Toyota Avalon with 141,000 miles for $4000.00. I test drove it and it ran okay. I went back and drove it again. I looked up reviews and of course they were all positive. "I love my Avalon" and so on.
Did I mention the guy I bought the car from is a mechanic? He told me it was a customer's car and he maintained it since it they bought it and, it was in perfect mechanical order. Yeah right!
I'm checking out my new car and realize the oil is a quart and the coolant in the over flow tank is dark. Now it hits me I should take it take to my mechanic and have them check it out.
Blown head gasket, desperately needs tune up, valve cover leaking, trans fluid is dark and sticky serpentine belts are cracked....$2400.00 in repairs. I told them to do the work. While the heads are off, they notice there is a considerable sludge build up. They called me so i could it myself. The sludge is so bad it can be scooped off the valve cover.
I'm feeling so foolish right now. I can't believe I didn't take the car to be checked out before I bought it.
Last night I decided that I would call the past owners of the car and see what they had to say. The first thing she said was "Yeah, we didn't want to spend the money to fix it" I felt sick. So I went to the guy I bought the car from and said I talked to the past owners of the car and he got a vacant look on his face like he was thinking "OH sh!$!" I told him to buy the car back or pay for the repair bill. He said he would think about it and call me tonight or tomorrow morning.
The thing that bothers me is that the guy lied. The thing that REALLY bothers me, is when it comes down to it, this is my fault for not getting the car checked out before I bought it.

It's called the stupid tax. We all know better I've made some really dumb purchases before too. But you ride that old mechanic until everything is repaired and in perfect working order. You should be able destroy him in small claims court if he decides to get cute. Make it very clear court is where he will be. Did you get his prognosis of the car when he sold it in writing? It would help a lot. Make sure you get everything in writing. So you have evidence. Your job is to win the court case.

If you didn't get everything in writing it's gonna be a lot harder.

 

[j_garcia]

That is always the risk buying a used car. If ANYTHING looks unusual, take it to a mechanic, you will always run into this sort of thing. I always prepare for used cars by hanging onto some of that saved up cash to take care of the problems that I already suppose it will have that are not obvious, at least NOW I do anyway

My story is very similar to yours. We were looking for a larger second car, so we settled on a Subaru Legacy Outback. Found one for the right price. I drove the car, seemed OK, former owner admitted the transmission had been replaced. It drove OK, but the tranny was a bit noisy. After a few months, the noise got worse and worse. We took it in and they said it was the wrong transmission for the car! Had to have it completely rebuilt, which ended up costing half what we paid for the car.

That's not the kicker. I looked over the car pretty well, but we didn't do a Carfax. That will never happen again. The car continued to have fairly expensive issues, so we decided to cut our losses and sell it. When we went to sell it, an interested party ran the carfax and it came back that the car had been in an accident after the former owner said it had not been, so we had to take less for the car that we just spent a bunch of money on.

Now that I've owned a few Subies, I have a better idea of what I am looking at and what is likely to go wrong with them as well as what costs the most to replace. That kind of knowledge is invaluable when looking at used cars.

 

[psbfan9]

Wow, I have never recommended the use of the 'L' word before in my life ... lawyer.

I think it may cost me more to get a lawyer than I already have invested in this deal. I'm thinking small claims.

It's called the stupid tax. We all know better I've made some really dumb purchases before too. But you ride that old mechanic until everything is repaired and in perfect working order. You should be able destroy him in small claims court if he decides to get cute. Make it very clear court is where he will be. Did you get his prognosis of the car when he sold it in writing? It would help a lot. Make sure you get everything in writing. So you have evidence. Your job is to win the court case.

If you didn't get everything in writing it's gonna be a lot harder.

He has until to tomorrow to let me know what he he's going to do. Then yeah, I have no choice but small claims. Unfortunately, nothing was put in writing. He verbally told me the car was mechanically sound, which now I know was b.s. He's been in business for 20 years and has a good rep. but to lie to make few bucks I find reprehensible.

That is always the risk buying a used car. If ANYTHING looks unusual, take it to a mechanic, you will always run into this sort of thing. I always prepare for used cars by hanging onto some of that saved up cash to take care of the problems that I already suppose it will have that are not obvious, at least NOW I do anyway

My story is very similar to yours. We were looking for a larger second car, so we settled on a Subaru Legacy Outback. Found one for the right price. I drove the car, seemed OK, former owner admitted the transmission had been replaced. It drove OK, but the tranny was a bit noisy. After a few months, the noise got worse and worse. We took it in and they said it was the wrong transmission for the car! Had to have it completely rebuilt, which ended up costing half what we paid for the car.

That's not the kicker. I looked over the car pretty well, but we didn't do a Carfax. That will never happen again. The car continued to have fairly expensive issues, so we decided to cut our losses and sell it. When we went to sell it, an interested party ran the carfax and it came back that the car had been in an accident after the former owner said it had not been, so we had to take less for the car that we just spent a bunch of money on.

Now that I've owned a few Subies, I have a better idea of what I am looking at and what is likely to go wrong with them as well as what costs the most to replace. That kind of knowledge is invaluable when looking at used cars.

That sucks. I feel ya on that. I looked at few a Subies. I like them, but don't know much about them except what I see on WRC.

 

[Nomo]

Make a sign. Something to the effect of "This POS was bought from (fill in company name here). Take it to him and tell him you'll be driving the car or having it parked near some busy intersection with this sign in the window until you feel some satisfaction.

 

[psbfan9]

Make a sign. Something to the effect of "This POS was bought from (fill in company name here). Take it to him and tell him you'll be driving the car or having it parked near some busy intersection with this sign in the window until you feel some satisfaction.

PERFECT! This is great!

 

[96cobra10101]

If this guy was a dealer you may have some recourse to get some money for repairs or a refund, but if you bought it as a private sale, you're probably SOL. I would chalk this one up as a lesson learned. It has happened to everyone at one time or another. Fix the car and drive it for another 50k miles.

Lots of risk buying used cars from private sellers, but here's a couple things to look for;
If you're not very car savvy, take someone with you who is, or talk to a mechanic and ask him if he could inspect it if you bring it to him. He may or may not charge you, and if he doesn't pay him anyway.
A low mileage car can be as bad as a high mileage one. Ball joints, tires, and brakes all go bad if a car sits to long.
a car may drive great a 45-50 mph, but get it to the highway speeds if you can, cars act very different at 65-70 mph.
Most important, get a warranty!! Tell the seller you want 15 or 30 day warranty on drive-train, anything engine or transmission related. If it is really a good car, they'll go for it, if not, walk away. Get it in writing, it will hold up in court.

 

[sawzalot]

Let him go ahead with the repairs when you go to pick up the car after the work is done tell him you want to go for a test drive and drive straight home end of story( unless they attempted to place a lien or something against you) if he demands payment tell him you are ready for a court decision if thats what it takes, from there you may be able to meet in the middle and get some satisfaction.

**In hindsight my advice is not the best so maybe you should try the small claims action if the two of you cant come to terms, good luck.

 

[96cobra10101]

Let him go ahead with the repairs when you go to pick up the car after the work is done tell him you want to go for a test drive and drive straight home end of story if he demands payment tell him you are ready for a court decision if thats what it takes, from there you may be able to meet in the middle and get some satisfaction.

Till he puts a lien on his house.

 

[sawzalot]

Till he puts a lien on his house.

That may be true and I just may have been making a suggestion that would more than likely "not" be the best one, another words it could be called "venting" or showing as much disdain for the situation as the op is feeling as well. I certainly wouldn't truly suggest he do anything that could cause a lien on his home and I am sure he would not allow that happen either.

Now what I did not mention in my first post and will gladly post it here, I took my 1990 Dodge Ram to a local dealer for a transmission problem, leaking fluid and slipping, 7/70,000 warranty , everyone remembers that one right?
I was informed that only a portion would be covered and I would have to pay, hmm ok sure but what is the warranty for huh Mr service manager, well I need it fixed so go ahead, they installed a new transmission, I went to the shop and took my truck for a test drive sure enough the truck was perfect again I drove straight home, drove thru Mickey D's on the way but then straight home, I stood my ground on the warranty issue and refused to pay anything, I never heard from them again, ever.

 

[Alex2507]

My thought was that a letter from a lawyer might be all it takes. You already know he's a lieing sack. Skip listening to any further BS from him and have the very next thing he hears from you be a letter from an attorney. That might run you a couple of hundred but it's better than spending another couple of grand to fix the car or losing the 4 grand you put in the car. If all else fails shoot him in the f^%&ing face. Oops, sorry ... got carried away for a sec.

 

[96cobra10101]

That may be true and I just may have been making a suggestion that would more than likely "not" be the best one, another words it could be called "venting" or showing as much disdain for the situation as the op is feeling as well. I certainly wouldn't truly suggest he do anything that could cause a lien on his home and I am sure he would not allow that happen either.

Now what I did not mention in my first post and will gladly post it here, I took my 1990 Dodge Ram to a local dealer for a transmission problem, leaking fluid and slipping, 7/70,000 warranty , everyone remembers that one right?
I was informed that only a portion would be covered and I would have to pay, hmm ok sure but what is the warranty for huh Mr service manager, well I need it fixed so go ahead, they installed a new transmission, I went to the shop and took my truck for a test drive sure enough the truck was perfect again I drove straight home, drove thru Mickey D's on the way but then straight home, I stood my ground on the warranty issue and refused to pay anything, I never heard from them again, ever.

Apples and oranges. Key word is warranty. You obviously had a crook for a dealer who was probably double dipping. Getting paid by you and probably billing the warranty company too. There have tons of scams in the auto industry, Ice Cold Air, Just Brakes, and warranties being refunded because the repair was more than the initial warranty purchase. example, you pay $1000 for a warranty, repairs are $4000. They send you back your money and wash there hands of it. Since in your case, you sound like you were in the right, the dealer left it alone to avoid a possible court case, and bad "press". Not knocking Dodge's by the way, I've owned them, but weren't they notorious for bad tranny's back in the '90's?

 

[psbfan9]

My phone rings this morning. I say "Hello". I hear "I'm not going to let some punk ruin my 30 year career". "Come by after 4pm this afternoon and I'll have a check for $2000.00". And he hung up.
I can't believe it. I'm pretty happy with this resolution.

I'm not one to give unsolicited advice, but, before you buy a car, take it to a mechanic and get it checked out first.
I also found out that Toyota motors on certain vehicles, Avalon V6, Camry, Sienna (van), and Lexus ES300 built from 1997 to 2003 had motors that were prone to sludge build up. The sludge in this Avalon is so bad it can be scooped off the valve covers.

I appreciate all the comments! Thanks!

 

[Alex2507]

I'm a little confused. The car was 4k, the repairs 2.4k, and he's giving you 2k back? So you're out of pocket 4.4k? Ifsofacto that does sound alright ... but still shoot him ...

Edit: 4.4k for a repaired car, right?

 

[psbfan9]

I'm a little confused. The car was 4k, the repairs 2.4k, and he's giving you 2k back? So you're out of pocket 4.4k? Ifsofacto that does sound alright ... but still shoot him ...

Edit: 4.4k for a repaired car, right?

I'm not going to have him pay for elective things I had done, like the tune up. Yeah, 4.4k for a repaired car.
I may drive it through the winter and sell it in the spring. I want to get rid of it now, but I don't want to stick some else with a POS. Driving it through the winter should give me a good idea of how well it will hold up.

I'm not going to shoot him....Yet

 

[lsiberian]

My phone rings this morning. I say "Hello". I hear "I'm not going to let some punk ruin my 30 year career". "Come by after 4pm this afternoon and I'll have a check for $2000.00". And he hung up.
I can't believe it. I'm pretty happy with this resolution.

I'm not one to give unsolicited advice, but, before you buy a car, take it to a mechanic and get it checked out first.
I also found out that Toyota motors on certain vehicles, Avalon V6, Camry, Sienna (van), and Lexus ES300 built from 1997 to 2003 had motors that were prone to sludge build up. The sludge in this Avalon is so bad it can be scooped off the valve covers.

I appreciate all the comments! Thanks!

You are lucky, but I'd go with some backup or protection. That punk statement is defamation of character. If you want to get cute with him.

 

[Hocky]

I'm not going to have him pay for elective things I had done, like the tune up. Yeah, 4.4k for a repaired car.
I may drive it through the winter and sell it in the spring. I want to get rid of it now, but I don't want to stick some else with a POS. Driving it through the winter should give me a good idea of how well it will hold up.

I'm not going to shoot him....Yet

You made out well. He didn't owe you anything and you would have lost in court.

 

[psbfan9]

You are lucky, but I'd go with some backup or protection. That punk statement is defamation of character. If you want to get cute with him.

I think it's better to just put this behind me and go forward. I've been called worse by better.

You made out well. He didn't owe you anything and you would have lost in court.

Disagree.
He lied about the car being mechanically sound. I've been thinking about this. If we went to court, he would say I bought the car 'as is'. That's true. I bought the car 'as is' with his professional opinion being the car was mechanically sound. He had been servicing the car for 8-9 years and knew what mechanical state the car was in. I also have the the previous owners stating the car was not mechanically sound. I proved without a reasonable doubt he misrepresented the car.

 

[j_garcia]

I'm not going to shoot him....Yet

Small caliber? Airsoft at least

Disagree.
He lied about the car being mechanically sound. I've been thinking about this. If we went to court, he would say I bought the car 'as is'. That's true. I bought the car 'as is' with his professional opinion being the car was mechanically sound. He had been servicing the car for 8-9 years and knew what mechanical state the car was in. I also have the the previous owners stating the car was not mechanically sound. I proved without a reasonable doubt he misrepresented the car.

Unfortunately, I think the court would side with him or even more likely, only do something similar to what he is offering at this point, which is approximately cover the repairs. The As-Is used aspect of the car is on his side, and it happens every day. It would be tough to win outright IMO, since the burden is on the buyer to have the car checked out.