Car Audio System Beginner

S

Smoothio

Audiophyte
I have a car audio set up that I'm trying to perfect and I have a few questions I was hoping some kind soul could answer.

Setup:

2000 Chevy Impala

2x 12" Kicker CompVR subwoofers; 2 ohms; 800w peak power; 400w rms power; ported box; 25-500 HZ frequency response

2x 6.5" Kicker DS-Series 2 way coaxial front door speakers; 4 ohms; 240w peak power; 40-20,000 HZ frequency response

2x 6x9" Kicker DS-Series 3 way rear panel speakers; 4 ohms; 360w peak power; 30-20,000 HZ frequency response

1000.1 D-Series Kicker Amplifier (1000w RMSx1 @ 2 ohms) Model 11DX1000.1

Kenwood DPX503BT Head Unit; Amp Max power = 50Wx4; Full Bandwidth Power = 22Wx4

I'm trying to squeeze as much potential out of my system as I can without distortion and I have a few questions:

1. Should I buy an amp for my door and rear panel speakers? If so how many watts and how many channels? Will an amp be too much or is it necessary for this setup? Without the subs the speakers sound a little bit low even on max volume. I want to squeeze as much potential as I can out of the speakers without damaging them mind you. Basically I want alot of bass, clear sound and no distortion if possible.

2. I have my crossovers set to 60hz with a -24db slope on all speakers+subs. I set the subsonic filter to 30hz and the amp crossover is set all the way to 200 or through (I believe?) and all of my crossovers are set on my head unit. Since I set the slope for the subwoofers on my head unit, does it add to the default slope (-18db) of the amp even though the LPF is set through on the subwoofer amp? In other words, I set the slope for the subs on the headunit to -24db the default slope on the amp is -18 db would that make the slope -42db? or will it be -24 db as specified on the head unit? On my head unit I can set the slope to as low as -6db but I cant turn it off. If it adds together I assume I can set my headunit to a -6db slope and along with the -18db slope on the amp it would add up to a -24db slope. I cant tell any difference by ear when I change the settings.

3. Do you guys think those are good settings for LPF, HPF, and slope? What are your thoughts and what do you recommend based on my setup? Do I have too steep of a slope?

4. My subs came with a car that I bought and already had a ported box. I don't know what the box is "tuned at". Is there a way to figure that out easily? My subsonic filter goes from 15hz-30hz. I set it on 30hz just to be safe. That's as high as it will go on my amp. I heard it was important that its set correctly with a ported box. Does having a ported box effect how I need to set my other low pass and high pass filters?

5. Is there anything important you guys think I might be missing? If you have any questions for me I'll be happy to answer or if you need me to find more information. I have tons of questions swirling around because I'm really new at this so I might ask some more when I can coherently think of them.

Any help you guys got would be GREATLY appreciated. I got in a car accident and smashed a deer and my car. Got a new car (first car I ever had that was nice with no dents) and I just want to have the sound set perfect because all I do is work, read, and listen to tons and tons of music. I know you guys know a lot more than me so I appreciate the knowledge.

Love ya's
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You have one external amplifier for the subs and roughly 25W/channel for the rest of the speakers. If you want boom, you'll have boom but if you want balanced sound, you need a separate amplifier for the rest, then balance the sound once it's operating.

Guessing at the crossover settings won't get you where you want to be- use an RTA program or app and find out what the speakers can do and look at the system response first, then tailor it to what you want to hear. Hopefully, your goal isn't just to have a loud car. You seem to have chosen crossover frequencies used for home theater- don't, unless it just happens to work. You're dealing with a vehicle that will have road noise- use an RTA app on your smart phone (the mic in iPhones tend to be more consistent than in Androids) to measure the noise without the system and set the HP for the fronts at the upper end. You could set the HP for the 6x9s a bit lower, but since you're not using them for deep bass, it's not as important that they dig deeper- they'll be needed for the mid-bass. Start with the LP for the subs in the 60Hz-80Hz range and eliminate any peaks that show up- tone controls should be set flat without the Loudness button engaged.

Setting the levels correctly- this is where a lot of people get into trouble- without seeing the signal, it's almost impossible to know when the head unit, speakers or amplifier are distorting and don't let anyone say "I just use my ears". One way to set the baseline for the levels:

Do the level setting for the head unit several times with each song if you have never listened closely for distortion- it's much easier to hear distortion at low levels than when it's blasting.

1- Choose songs that have wideband sound that's not already distorted and has a fairly high average volume level
2- Decrease the input level setting for all channels to minimum, or close to it
3- Play the music during the louder passages and increase the head unit's volume setting to roughly 70%, listening for distortion in bass notes, vocals, synthesizers and drums. Find other songs and repeat this step, making note of the volume setting when it starts to distort.
4- Use hearing protection for setting the amplifier level controls for the reason I posted above. Set the balance/fader so ONLY one channel is playing- once you hear distortion, decrease the level control and play the other songs making sure the channel isn't distorting. Once you're done, set the balance/fader to the next channel and repeat this for each channel.
5- After the input sensitivity for the main channels has been set, increase the level for the sub channels until it's slightly higher than the others while all channels are playing - it's doubtful that you'll need to use all of the amplifier's power for the subs, but it's good to have headroom.
6- Get someone else to drive and go for a drive on roads and highways, to look for and listen for gaps and peaks in the response- make notes and take screen shots so you'll have visible information. Adjust as needed and repeat the road tests.

Make sure to use adequate power cable gauge- if you don't, your amp won't deliver, it could overheat and you'll probably have some kind of noise in the system. Go to www.the12volt.com for wire gauge charts. Add a heavier wire where the body is grounded to the battery- that skinny wire will never pass the current your system will try to use and it will prevent all kinds of problems.

Remove the door panels before cutting anything. I looked at a 2000 Impala door panel- looks like you won't need to cut anything.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
It may also be a great idea to consider a heavy duty alternator. With the car off any systems will sound way better however your battery will hate you.

When engines run and the alternator is powering everything so you will lose total output since the main battery isn’t receiving the full output of the alternator. A great recommendation is adding a second heavy duty deep cell battery to power the subs while still being charged by the heavy duty alternator.

Add a switch so if you don’t want to charge that battery you can switch it off. The benefit is you will still be able to start your impala after listening for longer periods with your car off!

As a trucker over the road I had an power inverter and used an additional battery for times the rig was off and still wanted AC power in the bunk. I used a switch to allow the extra battery to be charged while running my load. Same idea as an RV.

Most people have too little voltage to produce the wattage they need to drive their subs especially and as a result destroy the alternator and battery prematurely.

When your extra serious you can get into daisy chaining extra batteries and using two sub outputs to drive two single channel amps, one for each sub while each amp is connected to its own battery!

It doesn’t have to stop there either as the other channels in your setup can have a dedicated battery as well for the amp driving them.

Keep in mind a stereo is an addition to a vehicle and isn’t s necessary for its purpose. The battery that is used for your car doesn’t like you placing a high power draw on it and in reality is supposed to assist the starter to turn the car on or provide you a limited time to get to safety/repair shop should your alternator fail.

I suggest having an EQ for your car system. Nothing beats making manual adjustments using sliders. You can control all your frequencies that way. Don’t mix your deck crossover with the amp crossover.

The Deck has an active crossover and the amp has an active crossover built in as well. If you send the amps full signal then use it’s crossover otherwise defeat it if your doing that in the Decks bass management. The subs should have a passive crossover for there natural rolloff if not then use the subsonic switch set at 35hz.

Your subs and amps will love you and so will your ears more importantly. Remember if you hit say 105 db at 40 hz you’ll hit 81 db at 20 hz with a -24 db slope and 87 with a -18 db slope assuming you subs can handle such output.
 
S

Smoothio

Audiophyte
Thank you very much for your responses I'm just taking some time to learn as much as I can and think about my next step here.

The subs have a 1000.1 amp and are rated to run at 400w rms. They seem to have plenty of juice. The front 6.5" are 60w RMS and the rear deck 6x9's are 90W rms.

I was thinking about getting this;

46CXA360.4 Kicker 4 Channel 360w amp - 65 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (90 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms) 180 watts RMS x 2 bridged at 4 ohms (4-ohm stable when bridged)

Does that seem right or am I missing something?

I'm looking into an RTA. I have an Android (Galaxy J7 Crown) phone and I was confused if I had to buy a specific mic. It seems like I do, but I don't know if I'm just looking at old news. I'm still trying to learn how I would approach all of that. Do I just sit in the car and play pink noise with the mic out and adjust it according to your suggestions?

My head unit apparently has DSP functions like an Equalizer, Digital Time Alignment settings , LPF/HPF and control of slope and gain for each speaker, balance and fade all of that stuff. I wasn't sure if it was nessisary to buy an external DSP. ( I hope not lol). I know sometimes there can be marketing issues, I dont want to just buy an external DSP if I can just do everything it will do already with my head unit. (head unit is kenwood DPX503BT by the way)

I should have all the correct wiring but Ill double check and get it. I did plan to probably upgrade my alternator and get an optima battery if I needed to add another amp for my front and deck speakers because I dont really want to mess with power issues/lights dimming and such. I just want it to get all it needs.

I was going to have someone professionally install it but I might go ahead and do it myself if it isn't that complicated. Main thing is, I want my car to stay with the factory look it has. It already has the subs and after market speakers/headunit installed and it all looks real clean. I don't want to tear it all up trying to learn how to put an amp in there lol. There should be a spot where the factory amp is supposed to be. I want a good bang for my buck though I don't want to pay them to install it if its just going to be really easy, but I'm willing to pay if it's not so easy. I've already spent a lot of money on this. I don't mind spending money on a good hobby and quality sound but I still want to save when I can.

Thanks again for your responses I'll take them to heart I'm just working, saving money and trying to figure this out so I apologize for the delay in my own responses. I really appreciate your guys time though.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Yeah beef up your alternator may consider dual batteries. You will burn out your alternator plus your battery will live a very short life.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Unless your planning to compete I wouldn’t get to crazy like I was suggesting in my earlier post with multiple batteries or dedicated amps for each speaker pair or individual sub.

Quite honestly I’ve been out of the car audio game for a while since settling down to raise a family and spending time in audio/home theatre gear.

I agree if your happy with your current install leave well enough alone. It usually easy to upgrade components in the places the old unit is without making much of an adjustment.

As for getting the best performance out of your gear just remember you will be tweaking it for the driver and passenger seat primarily as the subs are furthest from that part of your cars interior.

Windows add a lot of reflections which you should definitely consider when using the mic and RTA. You will need to do quite a bit of tests to setup different presets for various music so you can make those adjustments on the fly without using your mic and RTA afterwards.

I know this sounds vague but I’m not in the car Listening with you so it’s more important to stick to the basics!
 
S

Smoothio

Audiophyte
It's all good I appreciate all the information I can get and your time to post. I don't compete and my system does sound very nice to me, I mean it bangs and sounds clear when I go max volume, except some songs fuzz a bit sometimes at max volume but I cant tell if its just the quality of the source mp3/cd or what is causing that yet.

Also if I turn off the sub woofers, play only the front speakers, then turn the volume to max, it doesnt really seem like that should be the "max" volume if that makes sense. (The volume #'s on this kenwood goes 0 to 35 by the way)

It doesn't seem loud enough and seems like the signal or speaker may be "straining" if that makes any sense. I personally feel the issues I'm hearing/experiencing is mainly due to under powered front/rear deck speakers.

The subs seem plenty loud I can make it knock pretty hard if I want to. I basically took the song with the loudest heaviest low bass notes I had and turned it up until it distorted then backed off the gain until it didn't any more, and it has sounded pretty good ever since.

But, I know that I'm new at this and I have a feeling that I could get more potential out of the gear that I have for relatively cheap and/or I could be doing a lot wrong and just wrong about everything because I'm missing key information. I kind of jumped in and bought some stuff, but then the more I dig into it the more curious I get etc.

I'm addicted to sound now lol
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
Yeah a deck isn’t the way to power any speaker. You will definitely get more performance from the fronts using an amp for them.

You shouldn’t ever turn the volume past 27 on that deck even with amps. Your already into soft clipping by then probably around 24.
 
Kvn_Walker

Kvn_Walker

Audioholic Field Marshall
Your need for a second battery and beefy alternator will depend on how hard you intend to drive those subs. I've got an Alpine PDX-M6 sub amp (700W birth sheet) powering a JL 12w6 in a sealed box (need that trunk space!) and I never get crazy with it so I've never had power issues. But everyone has a different definition of "adequate bass," so what works for me might not for you. :D

My Kenwood DDX793 is like yours (22x4) and I'm happy with the output from it. My crossover points are pretty high because I still have the garbage factory speakers, but when/if I ever get the Image Dynamics put in the doors I will be able to lower those points and get more midbass up front. Years ago I had a 2011 Accord 2-door rigged up with an Alpine PDX-F4 to the doors and rear deck and yes it was SICK, but it's been a while since I've felt the need to crank it like I did in those days (I save that for my home system when I'm alone). Still have the amp, but haven't used it in years.
 
S

Smoothio

Audiophyte
I almost always drive alone and I have to drive an hour to work 5-6 days a week. Plus, I mainly sit in my car at lunch and breaks and just listen to music. I don't even watch T.V. anymore. I just read and listen to music or drive around bumping. I do like to bang it out myself lol.

So, this is what I've done so far, sorry for the delayed reply I've just been working and trying to line everything up.

I bought a kicker CXA360.4 360w RMS (says it is rated at 428w RMS on the little birth certificate) amplifier. It is getting installed tomorrow morning.

So my system will be two 12" kicker compVR subwoofers, two 6.5" kicker DS front door speakers, and two kicker DS 6x9 deck speakers + a 1000W kicker D-series mono amp for the subs and a 360w rms (720w peak) 4 channel amp for the front and deck speakers.

I also bought a Bosch OE Police Package 125 amp alternator from rock auto that should be here by Tuesday.

Since I bought the high output alternator. I don't think I would need to get a different battery or a capacitor or anything right? I was told the battery just starts the car basically and the alternator will run everything.

Should be banging, only thing I kind of want to make sure to do is correctly measure the dimensions on my box so I can correctly set the subsonic filter because I'm not sure if mine is set correctly. After that it should just be tweaking the sound.

I was also thinking of getting a multi meter to make sure the correct power is going to each speaker and all that good stuff.
 
HTfreak2004

HTfreak2004

Senior Audioholic
So my system will be two 12" kicker compVR subwoofers, two 6.5" kicker DS front door speakers, and two kicker DS 6x9 deck speakers + a 1000W kicker D-series mono amp for the subs and a 360w rms (720w peak) 4 channel amp for the front and deck speakers.

I also bought a Bosch OE Police Package 125 amp alternator from rock auto that should be here by Tuesday.

Since I bought the high output alternator. I don't think I would need to get a different battery or a capacitor or anything right? I was told the battery just starts the car basically and the alternator will run everything.

.
The addition battery will help! The idea behind it is when the car is off and you want to listen for longer periods you will be able to do so without fear of not having juice in the battery to restart the car.

You will need a switch to charge the second or third batteries to prevent the circuit having access to the main battery to start the car. I mean you turn the switch to closed when the car is off and your listening to your system!

That prevents drawing from the primary starting battery. You open the switch while the car is running to charge the additional batteries.

A car system will always sound the best without the engine running unless the system draw is to high for the battery.

Remember the sub amp and other amp are going to place tremendous draw on any alternator. It’s the weak point “all” car audio.

In our cars power supply is where almost everyone comes up short. An alternator is useless with the car off!
 
C

Crazy8s846

Audioholic
If you set and listen to music your battery might go dead faster than you think. My pickup has a optima redtop in it that last around 30 minutes before it will not start the truck, im running a 150 watts rms perchannel to my doors and 536 rms to my sub. If you do get another battery its not a switch, what you need is a battery isolater that way when the car is on it charges both batteries , but when its off the one your stereo is connected to is isolated from the starting battery. The battery in my truck is 300.00 dollars 1000 cranking amps. I just let the truck idle if I want to listen to it.
 
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C

Crazy8s846

Audioholic
The addition battery will help! The idea behind it is when the car is off and you want to listen for longer periods you will be able to do so without fear of not having juice in the battery to restart the car.

You will need a switch to charge the second or third batteries to prevent the circuit having access to the main battery to start the car. I mean you turn the switch to closed when the car is off and your listening to your system!

That prevents drawing from the primary starting battery. You open the switch while the car is running to charge the additional batteries.

A car system will always sound the best without the engine running unless the system draw is to high for the battery.

Remember the sub amp and other amp are going to place tremendous draw on any alternator. It’s the weak point “all” car audio.

In our cars power supply is where almost everyone comes up short. An alternator is useless with the car off!
Battery isolater no switch does it all by it self. You can get the isolater at any auto parts store .
 
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C

Crazy8s846

Audioholic
My battery has a 120 minute reserve at 25 amp draw but only last 30 minutes, you can look up your battery to find out what reserve power it has an kind of get how long it might last.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
I almost always drive alone and I have to drive an hour to work 5-6 days a week. Plus, I mainly sit in my car at lunch and breaks and just listen to music. I don't even watch T.V. anymore. I just read and listen to music or drive around bumping. I do like to bang it out myself lol.

So, this is what I've done so far, sorry for the delayed reply I've just been working and trying to line everything up.

I bought a kicker CXA360.4 360w RMS (says it is rated at 428w RMS on the little birth certificate) amplifier. It is getting installed tomorrow morning.

So my system will be two 12" kicker compVR subwoofers, two 6.5" kicker DS front door speakers, and two kicker DS 6x9 deck speakers + a 1000W kicker D-series mono amp for the subs and a 360w rms (720w peak) 4 channel amp for the front and deck speakers.

I also bought a Bosch OE Police Package 125 amp alternator from rock auto that should be here by Tuesday.

Since I bought the high output alternator. I don't think I would need to get a different battery or a capacitor or anything right? I was told the battery just starts the car basically and the alternator will run everything.

Should be banging, only thing I kind of want to make sure to do is correctly measure the dimensions on my box so I can correctly set the subsonic filter because I'm not sure if mine is set correctly. After that it should just be tweaking the sound.

I was also thinking of getting a multi meter to make sure the correct power is going to each speaker and all that good stuff.
The battery for the audio system will need high reserve capacity, not cold cranking amps, although it's not a bad thing if it has both. Also, your power output won't be the same with the at rest and while running at about 2000RPM unless the manufacturer used a highly regulated power supply and in that case, it won't have as much headroom as an amp that's more loosely regulated. The elephant in the room for loosely regulated is that difference in output, so operate the system accordingly.

Don't worry about what the speakers get, worry about the voltage to the amplifiers. You can install small volt and amp meters near them- it provides easy access to the info and it can look kind of cool- you can watch the meter in real time as the music plays.

I would also recommend looking at any isolator closely to make sure it doesn't drop the voltage much- most diodes drop it by about .7VDC and it's part of how they work. Look into 'Zero voltage drop marine battery isolators'- boats can't afford to undercharge the batteries because being stranded on the water usually leads to major problems. They're not cheap, but they do exist. Here's a link to a forum that discusses this-

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/battery-isolator-voltage-drop-20917.html

As I mentioned before, you want to install a heavier gauge body ground- the audio system needs this to complete the battery circuit and if it's inadequate, they'll try to make up the difference wherever they can and that means other wires & devices will be the victims. If you have ever heard a buzzing (usually called 'alternator whine') that goes up in pitch with RPM, that's caused by ground loop- this is caused by the DC needing a better connection to the battery and taking the path of least resistance (this is where that phrase comes from),usually the audio cables to the head unit or the last piece in the audio path. Grounding is paramount- when people talk about star grounding, it's not a physical topology, it's electrical. The grounds can be stacked on the same screw or bolt and because minute resistances can exist between each ring terminal, you can still have noise. If you can measure DC voltage between the ground points of each audio device, you WILL have noise.

FYI- you have probably seen 'Deep Cycle' in reference to some batteries- that doesn't mean 'kill it, so there's no voltage', it means 'the battery's charge level drops to about 10VDC'. Every time you discharge a battery deeply, it loses capacity- lead/acid batteries lose about 30% EVERY TIME. AGM batteries are different- learn as much as possible before buying. I would look at the Yellow Top if you decide on Optima. I had a Red Top (came with my van) and it finally went out last Spring, but it never failed to start the engine in the time I had it- when I removed it, I saw the date code- it was 9 years old and the van came from Phoenix, so it was definitely exposed to excessive heat.
 
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C

Crazy8s846

Audioholic
The battery for the audio system will need high reserve capacity, not cold cranking amps, although it's not a bad thing if it has both. Also, your power output won't be the same with the at rest and while running at about 2000RPM unless the manufacturer used a highly regulated power supply and in that case, it won't have as much headroom as an amp that's more loosely regulated. The elephant in the room for loosely regulated is that difference in output, so operate the system accordingly.

Don't worry about what the speakers get, worry about the voltage to the amplifiers. You can install small volt and amp meters near them- it provides easy access to the info and it can look kind of cool- you can watch the meter in real time as the music plays.

I would also recommend looking at any isolator closely to make sure it doesn't drop the voltage much- most diodes drop it by about .7VDC and it's part of how they work. Look into 'Zero voltage drop marine battery isolators'- boats can't afford to undercharge the batteries because being stranded on the water usually leads to major problems. They're not cheap, but they do exist. Here's a link to a forum that discusses this-

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/battery-isolator-voltage-drop-20917.html

As I mentioned before, you want to install a heavier gauge body ground- the audio system needs this to complete the battery circuit and if it's inadequate, they'll try to make up the difference wherever they can and that means other wires & devices will be the victims. If you have ever heard a buzzing (usually called 'alternator whine') that goes up in pitch with RPM, that's caused by ground loop- this is caused by the DC needing a better connection to the battery and taking the path of least resistance (this is where that phrase comes from),usually the audio cables to the head unit or the last piece in the audio path. Grounding is paramount- when people talk about star grounding, it's not a physical topology, it's electrical. The grounds can be stacked on the same screw or bolt and because minute resistances can exist between each ring terminal, you can still have noise. If you can measure DC voltage between the ground points of each audio device, you WILL have noise.

FYI- you have probably seen 'Deep Cycle' in reference to some batteries- that doesn't mean 'kill it, so there's no voltage', it means 'the battery's charge level drops to about 10VDC'. Every time you discharge a battery deeply, it loses capacity- lead/acid batteries lose about 30% EVERY TIME. AGM batteries are different- learn as much as possible before buying. I would look at the Yellow Top if you decide on Optima. I had a Red Top (came with my van) and it finally went out last Spring, but it never failed to start the engine in the time I had it- when I removed it, I saw the date code- it was 9 years old and the van came from Phoenix, so it was definitely exposed to excessive heat.
I was going to add a second battery to my truck but decided not to. Im rarely in my truck. But if I did id go with a blue top marine battery. They seem to be a better deep cycle than the yellow top.
 
S

Smoothio

Audiophyte
Alright so I've got the new amp installed. It sounds AMAZING like almost twice as good as it did before and it already sounded good. Now everything balances perfectly (the sub bass and the music). The guys at the shop helped me tune it alot better than I had it as well. Its really noticeable in rock songs something like Jambi, but basically everything sounds a LOT better, really good and crisp, and has bass where is supposed to and not where its not supposed to...

I can definitely tell its using too much power if I crank the volume up. I'm trying not to run it too hard until I get the new alternator. It should be here tomorrow and I'll get that installed.

Thanks for the tips on the battery. I'm going to handle all of that for my next step here so I'll take everything you guys posted here to heart and do some more research to help me better understand everything and then get it all lined out.

I don't want to have any problems down the road with the electrical system in my car so thank you for pointing things out to me that might effect me in the future. I spent alot of money on this so far, which is fine because music is my life soundtrack, it gets me moving, thinking, and feeling right for the day. Since I've gone this far with it I want to make sure its tip top, no problems.

It looks all clean and factory too its all so pimped out, I love it.

Anyone who gets in this thing says it sounds like a concert and it looks like it was made in the factory.

I've gone this far so I just want it done right, as good as I can get it without going broke. Then I'll have my tunes rocking and I'll go ahead and build a new project!

I wish I could put you guys in my car and show you how great it sounds its unbelievable.

I'm a for real big time alcoholic who was on the verge of death, I quit drinking permanently and this is the type of stuff I'm doing with my life right now. Its so much better.

I really appreciate all of your time and help, I'll get to work on setting up the battery/batteries correctly and let you guys know what I did and how it all went!

Thanks again, love ya's
 
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