Car Audio Question

[gellor]

I just got my new car last week, and its stereo is...meh...its ok. I took it around to several aftermarket stereo ripoff shops to find out what can be done, and the guy starts in on $1500 front speakers, disabling the rear door speakers entirely, adding a JL Audio cleansweep to disable factory eq (also disabling the headunit's volume knob, etc), $1000 dual amps, etc. All around the premise that "This stuff will make your car LOUD!"

Bleh. I left.

So I'm wondering. I would like to keep the factory head unit. (Less chance of theft) Its got a pretty complex speaker setup in this car. Its got a 3-way setup in the front doors. (6.5" bass, 3.5" mids, and a tweeter) and a 2-way setup in the rear door. (6.5" bass, 3.5" mids, no tweeter)

There is no external factory amp. Just the 4x20 head unit.

Now, I know this whole setup is probably crossed over some wierd way, either at the factory head unit or somewhere along the wires...is there anything wrong with just replacing the individual speaker components? Will it help the sound at all?

Can you run the sound from the factory head unit to an amp and then to aftermarket speakers for improved sound? Or does this sort of setup have to be entirely replaced?

I'm just pissed off at the guy from Tweeter trying to up his commission by trying to upsell products that wouldn't even work well in the configuration he was recommending.

 

[JaceTheAce]

Yes, you CAN run the sound from a factory head unit to an aftermarket amp. Most amps will have speaker line inputs then outputs if you don't have an RCA jack line out from the head unit.

When I replaced my Honda Civic's stock head unit to an Alpine head unit, the sound improved considerably at low volumes even. If you replace the speakers, that will be the first mod you'd want if you want instant improved sound quality - even by leaving the head unit stock. If you are worried about car breakin's and want to leave the head unit stock (which is a good idea), there are still many options you can do to improve sound.

In the end, those guys just want to increase their commission and make a buck off you. Try to go in there informed about certain audio products (maybe do some research on a few head units) so that the guys don't try to steer you into something you don't need.

I'd say replace the stock speakers and see if you like the sound improvement. If you don't, add a 4 channel amp (or however many speakers you have). You may want to consider a small sealed enclosure subwoofer - JL Audio makes very good car subs and I have one myself. You don't need anything more than one 10 inch sub, unless you want to impress others with your loud annoying bass and thump Nelly and other kind of abnoxious rap like everyone else does when they put in "four 12 inch subwoofers in a bandpass enclosure".

One 8 inch or 10 inch sub will do wonders in a car for improved audio. It'll allow you to set the speaker crossovers' bass end up higher to send the big heavy work to the subwoofer. This will reduce distortion for where music counts the most and improve the sound quality quite a bit.

 

[j_garcia]

I've used an aftermarket deck with an amp and the stock speakers with good results, as well as using the stock deck with an amp (but aftermarket speakers) and it also worked quite well. I would prefer to replace the deck usually, but you can leave it, replace the speakers with better quality units and see how it sounds like Jace said.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

What car did you purchase? Some of the newer cars install very good speakers, but the head units have very little control over the sound.

Honda/Acura is one company I would recommend leaving the factory speakers in place. If you have room in your trunk, you can build a custom cabinet to house a subwoofer, and run an amp via line level inputs. Usually, your biggest difference in sound is the head unit, but unfortunately the car never looks the same after that unit is installed.

I swapped out my head unit in my F150, left the door speakers in place, and added an amp and dual 10" subs under the rear seat for a little extra kick. The parametric eq in my heaed unit makes the stock door speakers come alive, while controlling the sub level and frequency output. Had I left the stock head unit in place, I'd never have the mids and highs I do now. Graphic multi-band eq's IMO don't compare to parametric eq's for sound shaping.

 

[gellor]

Yeah...I want the deck to stay stock. I plan on a 10" sub, not sure on the sub and amp for those yet, though. I went by a different shop and they said since its a brand new model, they can't tell if it has a factory amp in addition to the deck. He said if it has a factory-installed amp, that they couldn't put speakers into the doors without bypassing the amp and adding another amp, probably pulling new speaker wire to the speakers in the process. Does that make sense at all?

(At least this guy wasn't trying to sell me a $6000 rig)

 

[gellor]

What car did you purchase? Some of the newer cars install very good speakers, but the head units have very little control over the sound.

Honda/Acura is one company I would recommend leaving the factory speakers in place. If you have room in your trunk, you can build a custom cabinet to house a subwoofer, and run an amp via line level inputs. Usually, your biggest difference in sound is the head unit, but unfortunately the car never looks the same after that unit is installed.

I swapped out my head unit in my F150, left the door speakers in place, and added an amp and dual 10" subs under the rear seat for a little extra kick. The parametric eq in my heaed unit makes the stock door speakers come alive, while controlling the sub level and frequency output. Had I left the stock head unit in place, I'd never have the mids and highs I do now. Graphic multi-band eq's IMO don't compare to parametric eq's for sound shaping.

2007 VW Rabbit. (Not the monsoon system...they don't even offer that on this car)

 

[billnchristy]

You can buy an amp that has speaker level inputs or they sell a speaker level to rca converter as well with gain controls so you can get a decent level to the amp.

Problem with all this is the greater chance for alternator whine, a lower quality input signal with greater chance of clipping (when your speakers start to break up now, your amp signal will) and less S/N ratio.

On top of that if the VW head unit does something silly with electronic crossovers at the head unit, your signal to the amp will be crossed over so you would need seperate amps for each speaker set, i doubt this is the case though.

You will be able to make a meh system a eh system...seriously, dont go too crazy on your speaker upgrade because that factory 80w is more like 20w probably.

Maybe just adding a sub will make you happy? that should be easy enough and a single 8" in a wabbit outta be enough.

 

[wire]

I just got my new car last week, and its stereo is...meh...its ok. I took it around to several aftermarket stereo ripoff shops to find out what can be done, and the guy starts in on $1500 front speakers, disabling the rear door speakers entirely, adding a JL Audio cleansweep to disable factory eq (also disabling the headunit's volume knob, etc), $1000 dual amps, etc. All around the premise that "This stuff will make your car LOUD!"

Bleh. I left.

So I'm wondering. I would like to keep the factory head unit. (Less chance of theft) Its got a pretty complex speaker setup in this car. Its got a 3-way setup in the front doors. (6.5" bass, 3.5" mids, and a tweeter) and a 2-way setup in the rear door. (6.5" bass, 3.5" mids, no tweeter)

There is no external factory amp. Just the 4x20 head unit.

Now, I know this whole setup is probably crossed over some wierd way, either at the factory head unit or somewhere along the wires...is there anything wrong with just replacing the individual speaker components? Will it help the sound at all?

Can you run the sound from the factory head unit to an amp and then to aftermarket speakers for improved sound? Or does this sort of setup have to be entirely replaced?

I'm just pissed off at the guy from Tweeter trying to up his commission by trying to upsell products that wouldn't even work well in the configuration he was recommending.

Hi
Im running a Old Carver M240 in my F-150 , bought off Ebay . Man , this Amp blows away , almost anything on the market right now ( except maybe Phonix Gold , they bought Carver Car ) . The high end on this amp is so clean , its very close to what i have in my house (TFM-35) .
Right now on Ebay there is a 4 channel Carver Car Amp up for sale ( if you can get a good price on it ) , I have nothing to do with it , but i just cant believe how frikkin clean mine is . Its to bad Bob Carver didnt continue his Car stuff , when he opened up Sunfire .
Anyhow , take a look at Carver Car Amps . I swear by them . If you dont get this one wait they come up on Ebay often .

 

[gellor]

Hi
Im running a Old Carver M240 in my F-150 , bought off Ebay . Man , this Amp blows away , almost anything on the market right now ( except maybe Phonix Gold , they bought Carver Car ) . The high end on this amp is so clean , its very close to what i have in my house (TFM-35) .
Right now on Ebay there is a 4 channel Carver Car Amp up for sale ( if you can get a good price on it ) , I have nothing to do with it , but i just cant believe how frikkin clean mine is . Its to bad Bob Carver didnt continue his Car stuff , when he opened up Sunfire .
Anyhow , take a look at Carver Car Amps . I swear by them . If you dont get this one wait they come up on Ebay often .

Thanks for the advice. Didn't know he did car stuff.

 

[gellor]

You can buy an amp that has speaker level inputs or they sell a speaker level to rca converter as well with gain controls so you can get a decent level to the amp.

Problem with all this is the greater chance for alternator whine, a lower quality input signal with greater chance of clipping (when your speakers start to break up now, your amp signal will) and less S/N ratio.

On top of that if the VW head unit does something silly with electronic crossovers at the head unit, your signal to the amp will be crossed over so you would need seperate amps for each speaker set, i doubt this is the case though.

You will be able to make a meh system a eh system...seriously, dont go too crazy on your speaker upgrade because that factory 80w is more like 20w probably.

Maybe just adding a sub will make you happy? that should be easy enough and a single 8" in a wabbit outta be enough.

Yeah, I've had alternator whine before...it was obnoxious. I'm not sure on the crossover. I read somewhere that factory systems usually have the crossover built into the speaker. Not sure where I saw that, though.

I think the sub is probably going to be a good place to start.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Just be careful with your VW. My brother purchased a very nice Passat and had a high end audio dealer install a solid MTX mono amp driving a Polk Momo 12" driver. Nothing fancy. He's had nothing but electrical issues since. The car's been in the shop a dozen times. His windows quit working. All the electronics are buried under the seat, and work off a main board. It's a nightmare. VW wants huge money to fix what the shop screwed up. My brother is afraid to let them tough it again - as they keep offering to. I'd do some research on a VW website before you go adding aftermarket audio and ask some ? on some current owners.

 

[JKL1960]

Just be careful with your VW. My brother purchased a very nice Passat and had a high end audio dealer install a solid MTX mono amp driving a Polk Momo 12" driver. Nothing fancy. He's had nothing but electrical issues since. The car's been in the shop a dozen times. His windows quit working. All the electronics are buried under the seat, and work off a main board. It's a nightmare. VW wants huge money to fix what the shop screwed up. My brother is afraid to let them tough it again - as they keep offering to. I'd do some research on a VW website before you go adding aftermarket audio and ask some ? on some current owners.

I'll second that. I worked in an AV store and on more than one occasion we had to remove an aftermarket deck and plug in a factory deck before the VW service department would even look at the car over some warranty issues.

There is also a general problem with dealership's service departments blaming any electrical problem on any aftermarket products in the car. Alarms and remote starts for example. Even though I have rarely seen these cause the actual problems.

 

[j_garcia]

VWs have the highest number of electrical problems of all major manufacturers too, so of course they want to blame it on something else.

 

[gellor]

Just be careful with your VW. My brother purchased a very nice Passat and had a high end audio dealer install a solid MTX mono amp driving a Polk Momo 12" driver. Nothing fancy. He's had nothing but electrical issues since. The car's been in the shop a dozen times. His windows quit working. All the electronics are buried under the seat, and work off a main board. It's a nightmare. VW wants huge money to fix what the shop screwed up. My brother is afraid to let them tough it again - as they keep offering to. I'd do some research on a VW website before you go adding aftermarket audio and ask some ? on some current owners.

Problem is, ya can't do this with the Rabbit...as its a new-for-07 model. (yeah, its the new golf, but its nothing like the old golf, so no real comparison)

I took it by another shop this morning to get them to look at it, and actually got a salesman who called Metro. (Metro makes a lot of the harness kits, adapters, etc) They haven't even gotten the new rabbit figured out, so they're not sure if it even has a factory amp in it or not.