Can someone tell me what "analog" is on an receiver??

[pancakeplease]

I just picked up a used Denon AVR-2800 not too long ago and there's "Analog" mode. Under the label "Input" there are 3 buttons: "Input mode" (this toggles between Auto, PCM and DTS), "Analog", and "Ext. In".

The main question I want to figure out is if I get a DAC like a uDac-2 and make the chain as so: Computer (Source) > uDac-2 > Analog port in the Receiver > Speakers... what is doing the Digital-to-analog conversion, the receiver's built-in DAC or the external DAC? My receiver has a built in DA and it says that it provides DA for all 5 channels and the LFE/subwoofer channel.

I am wondering if the "Analog" input button allows for the bypassing of the receiver DA conversion, allowing for analog inputs like CD player, DVD, computer to come in and go out to the speakers untouched? Like a "Pure" mode, but my receiver doesn't seem to have any button called Pure. Or does it mean that it will turn ON the DA conversion within and spit out analog?


Then there's also the issue of "Ext In" vs "Analog" connections in the back of the receiver and I'm not clear on what this is. There are Analog ports in the back and also Ext. Ins. What are the differences? The manual said something about the Ext. In being inputs coming from devices with their own external amp or something so am I correct in thinking that when using my own external DAC like the uDac-2 for my computer, I should use the External In ports instead of analog connections?
So the chain being: Computer (Source) > uDac-2 > External In ports in the Receiver > Speakers



Can anyone help clarify this for me? Thanks.

 

[FirstReflection]

Hey there!

To start, I'm not totally sure why you want to use an external DAC so badly. If you can make a digital connection from your PC directly into your Denon receiver, that is the simplest connection setup and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the DAC in the Denon 2500 receiver. That model has high quality DAC!

But that aside, you certainly can use an external DAC if you really want to. What will come out of that external DAC is an analogue signal via a standard stereo audio cable. If you plug that cable into any of the red-and-white analogue inputs on the back of the Denon receiver, then it is just a matter of selecting that input (it'll be something like "CD", "Tape", "VCR" etc. ) and then using that "Input" button section to select "Analogue". This tells the receiver to "look" for the audio signal coming in through the red/white plugs for that particular input. "Auto" should also work. If you do this, the Denon will take that analogue signal and convert it back into digital PCM. It does this so that it can apply things like bass management, signal delays, channel trims or any DSP mode processing. After the digital processing, it converts it back to analogue again and then amplifies it and sends it to your speakers. So this entirely defeats the purpose of an external DAC!

What you'd want to use with an external DAC is that "Ext. In" setting. That setting "points" the receiver to a specific set of analogue inputs that should be labelled "Ext. In" on the back. These are basically "Pre In" connections. In other words, the "Ext. In" connections make your receiver work like just an amplifier and nothing more. If you had separates, with a pre/pro and amp, all the signal processing would be done in the pre/pro and then it would have "pre outs" that plug into the amp. The "Ext. In" plugs make your Denon receiver into an amp. No signal processing. Just the signal going straight to the amps.

So, if you're determined to use an external DAC, then that is essentially your "pre amp/processor". You take its analogue outputs, plug them into your Denon's "Ext. In" plugs, select an input, press the "Ext. In" button, and enjoy the signal as it gets sent straight through to the Denon's amps. But if you want to make use of any of the Denon's bass management or other processing, just send a digital signal straight from the computer to the Denon with nothing in between.

Hope that helps!

 

[BMXTRIX]

The above post was spot on, but I wanted to add a bit...

There are some products, like Blu-ray/DVD players, which have multiple audio output types on the back.

In the example photo below, you can see the back of the Oppo player has 7.1 analog audio outputs on the far left. Next to that is a set of standard stereo outputs (red/white) and then you have digital audio outputs either optical or coaxial.

There are any number of reasons to choose between the different flavors of audio which are available, including the use of a very high quality outboard DAC. I can't personally speak to the quality of the DAC you have, but I don't often find people that have the full equipment quality necessary for such equipment to provide actual sonic performance enhancements. From an extra set of analog cables, and the generation loss of the connections to the receiver, it is rarely an improvement to add to the chain unless you get something your receiver doesn't offer (like HD audio using the 7.1 analog audio inputs!)

So, your PC has digital out - why not just use it straight to the receiver? It's a simple connection, mitigates the chance for hardware issues, and provides a very good DAC within the receiver itself.

Of course, these are all your choices and that's why you have those options on the receiver.

For example:

 

[pancakeplease]

Wow thank you!

I could not have asked for anything more in those responses, it makes perfect sense now. Thank you to you both.

The reason why I asked about the external DAC is because I was told the single most important upgrade for an audiophile/audio system is a good DAC but i'm starting to learn that this is quite a controversial topic. Some people seem to believe that DACs are all the same and the technology peaked a while ago and others think there is a differene. Either way, I was looking to buying a small DAC like a uDAC-2 so I can use it for my headphones and speakers but I guess the DAC on my receiver is not bad at all. I think I will take your advice and just make the simpler (and cheaper!) connections and use the DAC onboard my receiver.



I have a question about my current connection between my computer and my receiver. I am using a 3.5mm-to-RCA cable to connect them both, like this one:

The 3.5mm male jack is going into my computer's onboard soundcard's 3.5mm audio out/headphone jack. And it is entering into an analog IN on my receiver.

1) Is the signal coming out of my computer still digital or is this 3.5mm-to-RCA converting it, changing or degrading it of some sort?

2) Going into the Analog IN on the back of the receiver, am I right in guessing that whatever signal is coming from the computer, is being processed by the onboard receiver DAC when I choose input mode "Analog"?
When I choose "Auto" it remains in Analog mode. When I manually choose DTS or PCM, nothing will play... no sound.


3) There is a digital HDMI optical out on one of the motherboard's port in the back I had nver even noticed. I am guessing that when people say "digital optical out" this is what they mean? So buying a digital optica out cable and connecting it to this particular port on my motherboard and into the "digital optical IN" on my receiver would be the simplest conection? How does SQ or signal compare with my current setup of just using the motherboard's headphone/audio out jack with a 3.5mm to RCA cable > Analog IN on the receiver?

4) Lastly, I have decided not to buy an external DAC but would the digital signal being sent to the receiver somehow be better or will the Sound quality improve if I get a soundcard for my computer? I'm just using my motherboard's ALC889 audio. Or is that moot since the receiver at the end is doing all the DAC and conversion work?





Thank you again.

 

[markw]

The signal you're getting from your computer now is analog, converted by your computer's internal sound card.

Unless you can find some sort of optical (or coaxial) digital output on your computer you're gonna be opening a whole new can of worms here: You're going to have to invest in a NEW sound card in order to significantly improve your sound and, even then, it might not be all you hope it to be.

The good news is that many external sound cards exist that can be driven by USB ports so invasive surgery might not be needed.

Once you have that external sound card you can then go ahead and get that external DAC to take the sound card's digital output and convert it to analog.

Then you'll be right back to where you are now.

 

[pancakeplease]

The signal you're getting from your computer now is analog, converted by your computer's internal sound card.

Unless you can find some sort of optical (or coaxial) digital output on your computer you're gonna be opening a whole new can of worms here: You're going to have to invest in a NEW sound card in order to significantly improve your sound and, even then, it might not be all you hope it to be.

The good news is that many external sound cards exist that can be driven by USB ports so invasive surgery might not be needed.

Once you have that external sound card you can then go ahead and get that external DAC to take the sound card's digital output and convert it to analog.

Then you'll be right back to where you are now.

I think I actually have a digital optical output (S/PDIF Out), I just found it on the back of my motherboard. Is this connection to the receiver better than my current analog (3.5mm to RCA) connection?

The difference I see is that the digital optical out will be all digital and be simply converted by the DAC on the receiver putting out analog... where my current connection using a 3.5mm-to-RCA is analog (correct??)? Meaning it will come out either analog untouched if I put it in External In. port or use "Direct/Pure" mode. If I don't do anything and just leave it as is on an analog port in the back of the receiver, is the DAC still active? Meaning it will be Analog (from computer) > Digital > Analog (by receiver DAC)?


Kind of confusing...

 

[markw]

I believe that, on that receiver, analog inputs are converted to digital so the signal can be controlled in the digital domain. This would include bass, treble, balance, bassmanagement and other niceities.

I think you haves omething like "pure direct" or something like that that will not convert analog to digital but you will lose a lot of control. About all you wil have would be volume and maybe balance.

You might want to check your manual for more on this.

Oh, after reading your other posts, you'll probably want to get hold of a remote. You're gonna need one.

 

[pancakeplease]

I believe that, on that receiver, analog inputs are converted to digital so the signal can be controlled in the digital domain. This would include bass, treble, balance, bassmanagement and other niceities.

I think you haves omething like "pure direct" or something like that that will not convert analog to digital but you will lose a lot of control. About all you wil have would be volume and maybe balance.

You might want to check your manual for more on this.

Oh, after reading your other posts, you'll probably want to get hold of a remote. You're gonna need one.

Hahah yeah...... made another thread but my new Polk PSW10 subwoofer isn't getting a signal from my receiver and turns out, I may have to do a "System Setup" to choose Subwoofer=Yes. But only a remote does that. However, the Denon remote is no longer available so.. its a problem.

Wonder if any universal remotes do specific functions like that.

 

[markw]

Let's hope you can find a working remote, Denon or otherwise.

I'm still running a Denon-2802 which I bought new in 2002 and, what with it's "External Audio In" for my Blu-ray's 5.1 analog outputs and by feeding all my video directly to the TV, it's outlived several generations of newer receivers and still kicks butt.

It's a good unit if you don't mind doing your video switching via the TV and ausio selection vis the Denon.