Can I do better than the Onkyo A-9050 for $500?

[audioplum]

I have a pair of CSW Model Sixes and a CSW Basscube 10S. Right now they're mated to a war torn Pioneer SX-22terrible in an average size bedroom (I mean, office, I mean, listening room). All of my source is digital out of an iMac, quality varies wildly as the collection is 15 years in the making.

Interested in a DAC and integrated amplifier, the Onkyo A-9050 seems to touch all of the bases I need; optical input, better DAC than I have now in the iMac, subwoofer output, 2 channel 8 ohm at reasonable power. But not a single review has any praise for the unit's sound as being warm and listenable and beautiful, which seems to be the whole point.

The Onkyo at $500 is right around my budget for this. Is there a more compelling option at this price point with a separate DAC and amplifier? Should I be hung up on dedicated subwoofer out and higher wattage (as the Model Sixes will take up to 150w)?

 

[afterlife2]

Welcome! $350 if you don't mind refurb: ONKYO A-9050 Integrated Stereo Amplifier | Accessories4less

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Don't get stuck on power ratings, these speakers rated at 90db efficiency - this means they represent relatively easy load on amp - most of time you'd using only a few watts anyways

Word of warning - while 8050 is not bad way to go at all, you had mentioned sub - with proper bass management in modern AVR you could achieve better bookshelves/sub integration and more easily at that.
I highly recommend this model:
MARANTZ SR5008 7.2 Network Home Theater Receiver with AirPlay | Accessories4less
Winning combination of Audyssey MultEQ XT and Dynamic EQ is really worth few extra dollars for shipping (over your budget just a bit)

 

[audioplum]

Funny you mention Marantz, they're kind of on my radar since in the day, a lot of the CSW showrooms featured Marantz units. I really want the simplicity of a 2 channel unit though. I have a Denon AVR sitting on the floor right now because I refuse to hook it back up to a television to reconfigure it.

Maybe I will be so impressed with the Marantz amps that I will just abandon the sub?

 

[Steve81]

I really want the simplicity of a 2 channel unit though.

Unfortunately the simplicity of a two channel unit cuts both ways: features like bass management and auto-calibration/room correction are pretty rare in that market, but make a significant difference in sound quality.

Maybe I will be so impressed with the Marantz amps that I will just abandon the sub?

I'd dump that idea. CSW Model Sixes don't dig especially deep, and amplification isn't going to change that. I'd also forget the idea of amplification being "warm and listenable and beautiful, which seems to be the whole point." The job of an amplifier is to supply speakers with power, and to alter the source signal as little as possible (outside of amplifying it, obviously). If the amplifier is doing its job properly, it's then up to the speakers to be warm, listenable, and beautiful by transforming the electrical signal from the amplifier into sound waves.

 

[audioplum]

A little more than I wanted to be in for, but could I be happy with a Marantz PM6005 which touches all the points except for the subwoofer output, and maybe leverage the "Recorder Output" for that purpose?

 

[markw]

No, you don't want to use the recorder output for a subwoofer. That sends out a constant level which is not controlled by the volume control.

But, using speaker level inputs to a subwoofer doesn't suck and with a little time and patience, you can get a great balance using the (powered) subs crossover and level controls.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If my brother were interested in a DAC and IA, I would tell him not to waste his money and just get a Denon AVR because I think the DAC in the Denon AVR sounds just as good, the SQ from the AVR is just as good.

 

[Steve81]

If my brother were interested in a DAC and IA, I would tell him not to waste his money and just get a Denon AVR because the DAC in the Denon AVR will sound as good, the SQ from the AVR is just as good, but the AVR will output more power into 2CH than 75WPC x 2Ch.

I'd also add that we're talking about trying to pair a $700 integrated amp to a set of speakers/subwoofer that are worth ~$250 give or take; I owned the Model Sixes years back (and a Basscube 8), and while they weren't horrific speakers for $100/pair, high fidelity they aren't. My money would be on an AVR like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-X1000-5-1-Channel-Networking-Receiver/dp/B00CALM2JY/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1406658746&sr=8-3&keywords=denon+x2000
and focus what you can on better speakers and a sub.

 

[audioplum]

Don't I effectively have that in what's already sitting on my floor then in the Denon AVR-1907...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don't I effectively have that in what's already sitting on my floor then in the Denon AVR-1907...

Yes. The Denon AVR-1907 will sound as good as the $500 integrated amp. Use Pure Direct mode or Direct mode on the Denon if you want it to sound like the integrated amp.

Don't waste your money on the integrated amp.

 

[Steve81]

Don't I effectively have that in what's already sitting on my floor then in the Denon AVR-1907...

Not quite; your AVR-1907 would presumably do a fine job, but newer AVRs do pack a few goodies that older models don't (networking, Airplay, Audyssey MultEQ XT, etc). Of course, it doesn't cost you anything to run with the AVR-1907.

 

[audioplum]

Here's an easy experiment, I will haul a tv into that room and set it up (because I cannot for the life of me set that 1907 up without one it seems), play it, report back.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Here's an easy experiment, I will haul a tv into that room and set it up (because I cannot for the life of me set that 1907 up without one it seems), play it, report back.

Set all speaker channel level to 0.0 (factory default) and use Pure Direct mode on the Denon. This will be comparable to an integrated amp without using tone control.

 

[zieglj01]

Here's an easy experiment, I will haul a tv into that room and set it up (because I cannot for the life of me set that 1907 up without one it seems), play it, report back.

If that is going to work for awhile - then I would look to upgrade your speakers - that will make the biggest difference.

 

[audioplum]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance here, but what is it about my speakers that make them candidates for replacement? Years back when I bought the Model Sixes I was under some kind of illusion that they were solid, in spite of having picked them up for $99/pr on sale.

 

[Steve81]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance here, but what is it about my speakers that make them candidates for replacement? Years back when I bought the Model Sixes I was under some kind of illusion that they were solid, in spite of having picked them up for $99/pr on sale.

In the simplest terms: speakers have evolved considerably from what the CSW Model Six represents (which is at least nominally based on the KLH Model Six of the 1960s). You won't find speakers with high end aspirations using a 1.75" paper cone tweeter any more, as one example. A more typical 1" dome tweeter effectively extends higher without breakup, and offers wider dispersion. The cabinet is another example: the overhang used to make the grill appear flush is a no-no for diffraction (as is the width of the cabinet).

Now from a subjective standpoint, they don't sound bad or offensive necessarily (at least I didn't think so way back when). OTOH, getting my ears on some other speakers was a revelation, particularly in terms of imaging.

 

[audioplum]

Okay the more I delve into this, the more I just want to blow up and start over but bear with me.

I also have a pair of CSW MC300 and CSW S300, all remnants from when I abandoned everything for Sonos - would either of those pairs be a better starting point than the Model Sixes?

 

[Steve81]

I also have a pair of CSW MC300 and CSW S300, all remnants from when I abandoned everything for Sonos - would either of those pairs be a better starting point than the Model Sixes?

The MC300 looks to be a step in the right direction; the S300s are dedicated surround speakers, so you wouldn't want to use them for 2 channel work.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You'll have to pardon my ignorance here, but what is it about my speakers that make them candidates for replacement? Years back when I bought the Model Sixes I was under some kind of illusion that they were solid, in spite of having picked them up for $99/pr on sale.

The only thing that truly matters is what you think of them. If you think they sound great, then they sound great regardless of what others think.