Can a bass/subwoofer cause hearing fatigue? Advice needed

R

rubin10

Audiophyte
Everyone always talks about bright being the cause of hearing fatigue and pain. Is it possible to have the opposite problem? I can't seem to find as much info on the lower frequencies causing this.
I just got a new SVS pb1000 pro and I am in love, yet I found after around 30 minutes i start to get an uneasy feeling like my head is clouded. I checked the sound levels on a phone app and they averaged 65-75 db depending on what I was watching, with peaks of 85db. If I am not mistaken, this is a totally safe and level to listen at. I messed with sub volume from -10 (stock setting) all the way to -20; and while less intense, did not fix the issue.

Here is a diagram of my room layout with the positioning of everything. i only have 1 subwoofer, I am just showing you the two places I have tried. I cannot place the sub in the corners because of doors, and because of the amount of space around the tv with the tower speakers.
Window has a curtain and walls are currently empty, carpet flooring, old plaster/ sheetrock walls from the 60's.

Any advice on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated as I love the the output of this sub, and would love to be able to listen with some oomph.
Thanks!!

IMG_2327.jpg
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The levels on the sub's readout are limited in usefulness to your particular pre-amp. Describing your equipment and setup process would be more illuminating.....
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
The only time I’ve ever been fatigued by bass was with test tones at high levels. It’s possible that you’re sitting in a spot where there’s a big peak in the response, and that’s causing your problems. You’d need a proper measuring rig to verify that though. Does moving around the room change things?
 
R

rubin10

Audiophyte
The levels on the sub's readout are limited in usefulness to your particular pre-amp. Describing your equipment and setup process would be more illuminating.....
The subwoofer is connected to a Denon s660h and I ran audyssey after setting everything up. Is that what you mean? Or am I missing something that would help?
 
R

rubin10

Audiophyte
The only time I’ve ever been fatigued by bass was with test tones at high levels. It’s possible that you’re sitting in a spot where there’s a big peak in the response, and that’s causing your problems. You’d need a proper measuring rig to verify that though. Does moving around the room change things?
I plan on getting a mic and learning to use REW. And I found that its even louder if I am more towards the edges of the room. Is that what you mean?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The subwoofer is connected to a Denon s660h and I ran audyssey after setting everything up. Is that what you mean? Or am I missing something that would help?
You have a very limited version of Audyssey to begin with, particularly for the sub range. However, it should work reasonably well. How did the avr set sub level? They vary with implementation....in my Audyssey avrs they target initally a 75dB test before running the rest....how about yours? Results of levels/delays after running Audyssey MultEQ? You may simply have gains set too high on the sub, or poorly positioned the sub, too.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
I plan on getting a mic and learning to use REW. And I found that its even louder if I am more towards the edges of the room. Is that what you mean?
Something like that. Subwoofer response will vary from spot to spot in room sans a properly configured multi-sub rig. What that means is that you’ll get peaks and dips throughout the room. Audyssey *should* take care of that at your listening position, but it’s not infallible. A snapshot of your frequency response would help determine if that was the issue.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
FWIW yes, near boundaries (walls) levels and frequency response heard can definitely change. Where's your seating position, up against a wall? Where is sub likewise?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Everyone always talks about bright being the cause of hearing fatigue and pain. Is it possible to have the opposite problem? I can't seem to find as much info on the lower frequencies causing this.
I just got a new SVS pb1000 pro and I am in love, yet I found after around 30 minutes i start to get an uneasy feeling like my head is clouded. I checked the sound levels on a phone app and they averaged 65-75 db depending on what I was watching, with peaks of 85db. If I am not mistaken, this is a totally safe and level to listen at. I messed with sub volume from -10 (stock setting) all the way to -20; and while less intense, did not fix the issue.

Here is a diagram of my room layout with the positioning of everything. i only have 1 subwoofer, I am just showing you the two places I have tried. I cannot place the sub in the corners because of doors, and because of the amount of space around the tv with the tower speakers.
Window has a curtain and walls are currently empty, carpet flooring, old plaster/ sheetrock walls from the 60's.

Any advice on how to handle this would be greatly appreciated as I love the the output of this sub, and would love to be able to listen with some oomph.
Thanks!!

View attachment 57508
Over egging the cake, invariably leads to indigestion.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I don't know if listening fatigue as it's commonly defined is quite the same, but yes, LF output can cause hearing distress.
And it shouldn't within reasonable boundaries. ;)

I experienced that when I first fired up my Subs. My ears would start to go numb.

That all went away after running calibration.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I've rarely had low frequency fatigue, much more common at higher frequencies for me at least. If low frequencies I'd think your sub position/level could be improved, let alone the interaction with speakers/subs....
 
Last edited:
R

rubin10

Audiophyte
FWIW yes, near boundaries (walls) levels and frequency response heard can definitely change. Where's your seating position, up against a wall? Where is sub likewise?
Is the image I attached showing up? It has a diagram, but The recliners are around 8" back from the front wall (12' total length of room) and the subwoofer has been tried directly under the center channel and next to the right channel. I cannot place it in any of the corners due to space between the wall and tv up front, and the closet doors in the rear. That leaves any central position up front, or a central position in the rear. I would like to avoid the side walls as the room is only 11' wide and with the couch only leaves a couple feet.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Is the image I attached showing up? It has a diagram, but The recliners are around 8" back from the front wall (12' total length of room) and the subwoofer has been tried directly under the center channel and next to the right channel. I cannot place it in any of the corners due to space between the wall and tv up front, and the closet doors in the rear. That leaves any central position up front, or a central position in the rear. I would like to avoid the side walls as the room is only 11' wide and with the couch only leaves a couple feet.
With your limited placement positions and resutls I'd look to a second sub particularly. Didn't see an image in any case. The more convoluted/WAF issued directives rather than acoustic directives....YMMV! Good luck
 
R

rubin10

Audiophyte
With your limited placement positions and resutls I'd look to a second sub particularly. Didn't see an image in any case. The more convoluted/WAF issued directives rather than acoustic directives....YMMV! Good luck
Thats what I was afraid of lol. Would a sealed sub be preferable considering the small room?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thats what I was afraid of lol. Would a sealed sub be preferable considering the small room?
Not particularly except for size. Performance/room is what it is....and you can optimize that or not.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Is the image I attached showing up? It has a diagram, but The recliners are around 8" back from the front wall (12' total length of room) and the subwoofer has been tried directly under the center channel and next to the right channel. I cannot place it in any of the corners due to space between the wall and tv up front, and the closet doors in the rear. That leaves any central position up front, or a central position in the rear. I would like to avoid the side walls as the room is only 11' wide and with the couch only leaves a couple feet.
Yes, your diagram is showing up and helpful. Unfortunately your problem is that your room is almost square, which is a worst possible situation acoustically. This is because the wall reflections all coincide and generally produce an antinode right in the middle of the room. Another sub in the back might help, but I wouldn't count on it.
The best option is to be very judicious in the sub level and keep it well on the low side.

Rooms like that are the very devil to deal with. Rooms with a dominant dimension are always better, often referred to a shoes box rooms. There are optimum ratios for length width and height, but unless you are building a room from scratch that information is not useful.

This could be a situation where bass traps could be helpful. However, these sort of treatments need measurements and a good deal of experience to implement.

Your best option is to keep sub output low so not to excite those troublesome eigentones. Speaker selection all round can help. This is a situation where you want speakers with as low a resonance as possible. That is what is known as low Q alignments. Unfortunately good low Q speakers are far and few between.

The bottom line is that the only easy cheap solution for you is to keep the sub volumes severely moderated. One other cheap option is to experiment with moving the listening position nearer or further away from the speakers. The idea is to try and find the position of the node of the dominant eigentone, rather than the antinode.
 
R

rubin10

Audiophyte
Yes, your diagram is showing up and helpful. Unfortunately your problem is that your room is almost square, which is a worst possible situation acoustically. This is because the wall reflections all coincide and generally produce an antinode right in the middle of the room. Another sub in the back might help, but I wouldn't count on it.
The best option is to be very judicious in the sub level and keep it well on the low side.

Rooms like that are the very devil to deal with. Rooms with a dominant dimension are always better, often referred to a shoes box rooms. There are optimum ratios for length width and height, but unless you are building a room from scratch that information is not useful.

This could be a situation where bass traps could be helpful. However, these sort of treatments need measurements and a good deal of experience to implement.

Your best option is to keep sub output low so not to excite those troublesome eigentones. Speaker selection all round can help. This is a situation where you want speakers with as low a resonance as possible. That is what is known as low Q alignments. Unfortunately good low Q speakers are far and few between.

The bottom line is that the only easy cheap solution for you is to keep the sub volumes severely moderated. One other cheap option is to experiment with moving the listening position nearer or further away from the speakers. The idea is to try and find the position of the node of the dominant eigentone, rather than the antinode.
Someone recommended to get a MiniDSP 2x4 HD. Do you see this being worth the money and helping at all along with the setting on the SVS app?
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
A simple question, do you open or close the door to the room? Do you open the doors to the closet?
Have you tried it with an open window? PORT the room.

Second have you tried without a sub? Maybe you don't need one OR you need to turn the crossover to the lowest position 30hz and turn it up until
your ears start bothering you. It sounds like a ported vs not ported ROOM, totally untreated? Open the window and door. Open the
closets too. Use them for traps. Treat the room THEN EQ until your hearts desire. Everything is backwards.
Position first and get off the back wall with the recliner (S). How about one recliner first. :)

The speakers need to come out into the room. They can't image very well in the corners and they will likely add to the sub/bass issue.

You may not like the side wall for a sub, but it may be closer in TIME and easier to integrate to the mains and center speaker. Tune the room
first not after the fact. Curtains and tuned traps are out I suppose? Just askin' :cool:
 
R

rubin10

Audiophyte
A simple question, do you open or close the door to the room? Do you open the doors to the closet?
Have you tried it with an open window? PORT the room.

Second have you tried without a sub? Maybe you don't need one OR you need to turn the crossover to the lowest position 30hz and turn it up until
your ears start bothering you. It sounds like a ported vs not ported ROOM, totally untreated? Open the window and door. Open the
closets too. Use them for traps. Treat the room THEN EQ until your hearts desire. Everything is backwards.
Position first and get off the back wall with the recliner (S). How about one recliner first. :)

The speakers need to come out into the room. They can't image very well in the corners and they will likely add to the sub/bass issue.

You may not like the side wall for a sub, but it may be closer in TIME and easier to integrate to the mains and center speaker. Tune the room
first not after the fact. Curtains and tuned traps are out I suppose? Just askin' :cool:
Okay so it is its own room so the door stays shut. The closet are usually shut but I tried with them open and didn't hear a difference. I have not tried opening the window, so I can see how that works. I did try without a sub and it just sounds flat. As far as the speakers, there around 8 inches away from the wall, should it be more?
I tried and 60hz crossover and noticed no change so 40 may be worth a try.
And yes the room is untreated. Bare walls currently but I plan to hand some home made movie poster acoustic panels.
As far as seating, the room is 12' long andI sit about 8' from the screen, I found that sitting further back is worse. I do have a curtain on the window but its a cheapie so I can try a heavier one.
The problem with putting the sub on the side wall is the lack of room. At 11' wide, with the recliners and sub its really tight, like less than a foot tight.
And I would not be opposed to different curtains and traps. The issue is that with the closet door and room entry door, rear corner traps are not possible. I can put them up front however. Do you see just having one set making a difference?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes, your diagram is showing up and helpful. Unfortunately your problem is that your room is al
Someone recommended to get a MiniDSP 2x4 HD. Do you see this being worth the money and helping at all along with the setting on the SVS app?
That might help, but you will have to get accurate measurement to get any decent results from it. However this is a situation where judicious use of Eq can help, especially if adjustments are made solely to the bass decades.

I however I recommend you try the free low cost solutions, especially altering the listening position. The other question that has to be asked, is do you really need a sub in a room that small? Us older guys lived most of our audio lives without subs. I can't emphasize enough that your sub probably needs to be turned down very low in that room.
 

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