Calibration?

[Old Onkyo]

When calibrating speakers I set the distance to 11’ from listening position then calibrate to 75. DB.
What difference does it make if I set the distance to 1’ and calibrate to 75 dB?
It is still 75 dB at the listening position ...right?
When I listen to the speakers when do I get the 75 dB? At relative zero?

 

[lovinthehd]

Distance is really just delay so the sound arrives at your ears from each speaker at the same time....use actual distance your main seat is from each speaker. Subs may not work best at actual distance.

 

[Old Onkyo]

So if all the speakers are the same distance from my seat it doesn’t matter if I set them all at 1, 5, or 10 feet.
Why won’t the sub work at actual distance? Should the sub be set at zero?

 

[lovinthehd]

So if all the speakers are the same distance from my seat it doesn’t matter if I set them all at 1, 5, or 10 feet.
Why won’t the sub work at actual distance? Should the sub be set at zero?

Your seat is 11 ft exactly from each speaker? I've never had such a situation, I suppose it wouldn't matter in that case (at least can't think of a reason why it would at the moment). The sub isn't directly amplified by the avr, it is routed through another amp/dsp and that can add a slight amount of delay; on the other hand you can also use the sub delay setting as a phase adjustment. Here's one explanation about the sub delay https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/subwoofer-distance-setting

 

[lovinthehd]

Forgot about your question about test tones/level setting. Typically an avr's built in test tone is 75dB, down 30dB from reference so at -10dB on the relative scale you'd get an average level of 75dB playback (from movies calibrated to that standard, music varies). What avr and what are you using for test tones? Try this article https://www.soundandvision.com/content/‘relative’-vs-‘absolute’-volume-what’s-difference

 

[Old Onkyo]

Your seat is 11 ft exactly from each speaker? I've never had such a situation, I suppose it wouldn't matter in that case (at least can't think of a reason why it would at the moment). The sub isn't directly amplified by the avr, it is routed through another amp/dsp and that can add a slight amount of delay; on the other hand you can also use the sub delay setting as a phase adjustment. Here's one explanation about the sub delay https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/subwoofer-distance-setting

 

[Old Onkyo]

All my speakers are on the front wall. Just measured again, speakers are 6 inches off the wall, center and towers are 10’, surrounds are 10’4”.

 

[Old Onkyo]

Forgot about your question about test tones/level setting. Typically an avr's built in test tone is 75dB, down 30dB from reference so at -10dB on the relative scale you'd get an average level of 75dB playback (from movies calibrated to that standard, music varies). What avr and what are you using for test tones? Try this article https://www.soundandvision.com/content/‘relative’-vs-‘absolute’-volume-what’s-difference

Onkyo Integra DTR 6.5, for movies I usually play it at -20 relative volume.
Thanks for your help. I will read the articles you referenced.
Using the test tones on the receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

I hate the sound of the B&W for music. I can only listen for about 30 minutes before I get fatigued and turn it off. (Ideas welcomed)

Can and have partied all night with the Klipsch system never missing a beat.

At first thought you hadn't any actual reply in post #6....you managed to get this part stuck under your signature in the same blue font so almost missed it. Why do you have the B&W speakers if you don't like them? Personally have heard only a few B&W speakers in the 68x series and didn't like them particularly myself. Go back to the Klipsch if you like them more?

 

[lovinthehd]

All my speakers are on the front wall. Just measured again, speakers are 6 inches off the wall, center and towers are 10’, surrounds are 10’4”.

6 inches off the wall may still be too close to the wall but wasn't thinking of front heights for surrounds instead of normal positions (which can make for bigger differences in distance).

Onkyo Integra DTR 6.5, for movies I usually play it at -20 relative volume.

Thanks for your help. I will read the articles you referenced.

Yeah I see your 6.5 in the signature now, looked earlier in Tapatalk (no signatures appear in Tapatalk except the stupid Tapatalk ad usually). In your manual (pg 50) it indicates test tones are output at reference level (some older avrs did this but many found this level too high and thus newer avrs tend to use a 10dB lower volume test tone).

Now that I've had my coffee the reason distance is also important is that dB does go down with distance (generally a doubling of distance drops level 6dB), d'oh! If manually setting up your speakers I'd use the correct distance and that should yield 85dB for the test tones. Is there some reason you're not using the automatic speaker setup in the avr?

 

[Old Onkyo]

6 inches off the wall may still be too close to the wall but wasn't thinking of front heights for surrounds instead of normal positions (which can make for bigger differences in distance).



Yeah I see your 6.5 in the signature now, looked earlier in Tapatalk (no signatures appear in Tapatalk except the stupid Tapatalk ad usually). In your manual (pg 50) it indicates test tones are output at reference level (some older avrs did this but many found this level too high and thus newer avrs tend to use a 10dB lower volume test tone).

Now that I've had my coffee the reason distance is also important is that dB does go down with distance (generally a doubling of distance drops level 6dB), d'oh! If manually setting up your speakers I'd use the correct distance and that should yield 85dB for the test tones. Is there some reason you're not using the automatic speaker setup in the avr?

I used the AVR to calibrate twice years ago and did not like the sound. I will try it again this week

 

[lovinthehd]

@Old Onkyo fwiw you now have made the comment about I hate the sound of the B&W as part of your signature

So it was the auto setup you used a couple years ago to calibrate? Hard to know any particular issues from "did not like the sound" though. Curious, is this system mostly for movies or music as well? What modes do you use for music playback?

 

[Old Onkyo]

@Old Onkyo fwiw you now have made the comment about I hate the sound of the B&W as part of your signature
So it was the auto setup you used a couple years ago to calibrate? Hard to know any particular issues from "did not like the sound" though. Curious, is this system mostly for movies or music as well? What modes do you use for music playback?

The music on the B&W lacks warmth and depth. I know these are subjective but it is the best way to explain it. The sound is strident, after about 30 minutes I m physically tired. I purchased the B&W speakers for the worst possible reason...they sounded good at someone else’s house!

 

[lovinthehd]

The music on the B&W lacks warmth and depth. I know these are subjective but it is the best way to explain it. The sound is strident, after about 30 minutes I m physically tired. I purchased the B&W speakers for the worst possible reason...they sounded good at someone else’s house!

The room can make a huge difference. Then there's placement, room treatments, etc. Agree that's a lousy reason to pick speakers particularly (or not knowing details of any other info about how the signal got to the speakers), but often you can make different rooms work

 

[Old Onkyo]

 

[ryanosaur]

Your seat is 11 ft exactly from each speaker? I've never had such a situation, I suppose it wouldn't matter in that case (at least can't think of a reason why it would at the moment). The sub isn't directly amplified by the avr, it is routed through another amp/dsp and that can add a slight amount of delay; on the other hand you can also use the sub delay setting as a phase adjustment. Here's one explanation about the sub delay https://www.powersoundaudio.com/pages/subwoofer-distance-setting

Nice... Now you know where I'm at, Lovin'... and admittedly, after I set distance on my subs, I've been a little less than thrilled. Haven't necessarily understood why, but this starts to make a little sense. In my smaller room, where distance isn't far in any manner worthy of the name... is it reasonable to not set distance at all for Subs? Set it at double? (Arbitrary hyperbole with that one!)
What are your thoughts, please?
(Distances set as follows:
Front L/R: 7.5'
Center:7'
Surround L/R: 4.5'
Rear L/R: 6'
Sub 1: 5.5'
Sub 2: 7.5')
Thanks!!!

 

[lovinthehd]

Nice... Now you know where I'm at, Lovin'... and admittedly, after I set distance on my subs, I've been a little less than thrilled. Haven't necessarily understood why, but this starts to make a little sense. In my smaller room, where distance isn't far in any manner worthy of the name... is it reasonable to not set distance at all for Subs? Set it at double? (Arbitrary hyperbole with that one!)
What are your thoughts, please?
(Distances set as follows:
Front L/R: 7.5'
Center:7'
Surround L/R: 4.5'
Rear L/R: 6'
Sub 1: 5.5'
Sub 2: 7.5')
Thanks!!!

Assume for now you're just using Audyssey? Or a "manual" calibration and how particularly?

Might want to check some articles/threads on the subject.

 

[ryanosaur]

Assume for now you're just using Audyssey? Or a "manual" calibration and how particularly?

Might want to check some articles/threads on the subject.

haven't touched Audyssey yet. I am gonna check it out just for the experience. So right now, manual, distances measured by tape, Sub gain tuned by hand, with AVR trim set -3dB. 80Hz crossover seems to sound a little better on my BMRs...
I haven't adjusted any other trim levels for the speakers... they sound good as is.
Also, I have not experienced any benefit from tuning the Phase on the Sub, so that's set at 0. Sub LPF is bypassed for now.

Gonna check your links now.

Cheers!

 

[ryanosaur]

Might want to check some articles/threads on the subject.

Ha! Talk about a can of worms!
Thanks for that, It does make more sense now. It'll be interesting to see how Audyssee sets my subs when I fire that up.
To answer another unasked question, I did intentionally place my subs asymmetrically on opposing walls, and not the front wall. It might be nice to experiment with adding a third... You don't happen to have an X-13 lying around, do you? I only need it for a week or 52.

 

[snakeeyes]

Ha! Talk about a can of worms!
Thanks for that, It does make more sense now. It'll be interesting to see how Audyssee sets my subs when I fire that up.
To answer another unasked question, I did intentionally place my subs asymmetrically on opposing walls, and not the front wall. It might be nice to experiment with adding a third... You don't happen to have an X-13 lying around, do you? I only need it for a week or 52.

The subs can also be dialed in manually. Try Pacific Rim 1 Blu-ray where they are battling the monsters in the city and smashing through buildings etc. That scene has action with bass across the front 3 and some in the surrounds for the subs to reproduce. It’s also a great scene to watch over and over. .

You might want to try one sub in the front of the room to the outside of one of the main speakers.

Also if the room is not carpeted, a rug will be needed to help with the room acoustics.