Cables do not make a difference

[agular]

I have read with great interest over the past years about the effect interconnects and various other cables make on your systems sound. I finally had to find out for myself, if what many of the audio reviewer claims are true. I purchased some very high quality and expensive interconnects and rewired my system. I was hoping to hear some improvements in sound. I am not very happy with the results after spending a considerable amount. I guess the only improvement would be that the cables are nice to look at. Expensive lesson learned

 

[audiohead01]

I believe the most important aspect of cable design and choice would be proper size and sheilding if desired. I do not think a blanket statement can ever be made regarding interconnects. More obviously meeting the manufacturers recommendations would bring the best result.
-just a thought : )

 

[stratman]

same lesson learned here!

I did the same only backwards, I went from "high end" cabling (MIT Musichose, MIT Pro-balance) and switched to Belden stuff supplied by Bluejeans cables, I reached the same conclusion: it didn't sound better or worse they sounded the same. I've had this system for a while now:

Krell KST
Krell KSL
Proceed PCD
Accoustat electrostatics
Former cabling by MIT, now Bluejeans

LESSON LEARNED: Those so called esoteric HI-FI magazines are nothing more than billboards for snake oil hucksters, with some bogus science thrown in to keep the peasants awed. I should know I used to be one of the peasants. NOT NO MO'

 

[agular]

Yes, proper size and decent shielding is important. But what I am eluding too is hundreds of dollars and even thousands for cables are absurd. You can get the same results for a well made economically priced cables. Yes if you have the money and want “pretty cables” to look at I guess this would be a “blanket statement”

 

[markw]

Good construction and shielding don't cost a fortune.

The point of diminishing returns here is a LOT lower than many want to think.

 

[gene]

Folks, remember our mantra:

only poorly designed cables are sonically distinguishable ....

 

[JoeE SP9]

I did the same only backwards, I went from "high end" cabling (MIT Musichose, MIT Pro-balance) and switched to Belden stuff supplied by Bluejeans cables, I reached the same conclusion: it didn't sound better or worse they sounded the same. I've had this system for a while now:

Krell KST
Krell KSL
Proceed PCD
Accoustat electrostatics
Former cabling by MIT, now Bluejeans

LESSON LEARNED: Those so called esoteric HI-FI magazines are nothing more than billboards for snake oil hucksters, with some bogus science thrown in to keep the peasants awed. I should know I used to be one of the peasants. NOT NO MO'

Which Acoustats do you have? I have 2 pair and will own them until I die.

As far as cables go I her differences in some. Even considering those differences the cost of some cables is not only ridiculous but unbelievable. Cables that cost more than a very good power amp make no sense at all.

 

[stratman]

Hey Joe

Spectra 1100's, I'm going to sell them to my buddy and get some new martin logans, there's nothing like electrostatics. I belive I paid 1600.00 way back when c.1990-91. Anyway you're right they're great, but I'm looking for a change. I'm also sending the KST back for an upgrade.

 

[Jack Hammer]

Point of clarification...

...Personally, I haven't been able to distinguish between the cheaper AUDIO cables I've used and the AR proII AUDIO cables I've used, sonically. However,
I have personally, noticed a big difference between cheap VIDEO cables and better made (generally more expensive, though not insanely expensive) VIDEO cables.

This was especially noticeable when I used them with my PS2. There was an immediately noticeable improvement in picture quality and a loss of "graininess" that was in the picture. The VIDEO cables I changed were the component cables from my reciever to my TV.

my $0.02

Jack

 

[JoeE SP9]

Hey Joe

Spectra 1100's, I'm going to sell them to my buddy and get some new martin logans, there's nothing like electrostatics. I belive I paid 1600.00 way back when c.1990-91. Anyway you're right they're great, but I'm looking for a change. I'm also sending the KST back for an upgrade.

I've got the Spectra 22's with the SPW-1 and a pair of Model 1's. I agree, there's nothing like electrostatics.

 

[stratman]

gallos

Hey JOe,

Got the Gallos hooked up and running sweet!!!!I'm doing some serious, listening, watching, tweaking, etc. But man right now!!!all I can say this thing sounds seamless, you wouldn't believe it, the speakers are seamless and disappear.....I'm a little freaked out right now, I'm about to pop in Revenge of the Sith.

I'll post tomorrow or Monday when I calm down a bit.

 

[nbourbaki]

Folks, remember our mantra:

only poorly designed cables are sonically distinguishable ....

Is that mantra some form of audio gestalt? I can't always hear the differences between ICs, but there are some that I can easily distiguish. Does that make them poorly designed? For thirty years I didn't think there was any difference between cables and that all high end wire companies were thieves. Then a close friend swapped my Heartland ICs for a pair of Van Den Hul ICs. Smoothed out the treble and CDs that were once harsh in the treble were now smoother. At first I didn't want to believe that a pair of cables made such a difference, but they did. With this epiphany I'm afraid my days of cheap ICs are behind me.

 

[mtrycrafts]

For thirty years I didn't think there was any difference between cables and that all high end wire companies were thieves. Then a close friend swapped my Heartland ICs for a pair of Van Den Hul ICs. Smoothed out the treble and CDs that were once harsh in the treble were now smoother. At first I didn't want to believe that a pair of cables made such a difference, but they did. With this epiphany I'm afraid my days of cheap ICs are behind me.

Well, not sure of that cable construction, or gauge, or the equipment you are using, their input and output impedance as that may cause high frequency roll off when the cable has high capacitance and a preamp is passive with high output impedance of a volume control. That can and will roll off at an audible level.

But, if you have modern, well designed components and a cable with average capacitance, then there is only one explanation to your perceptions, biased and unreliable. Good cables are just not tone controls, nor smart enough to tone down specific bands.

What you really need to do is compare the cable under bias controlled conditions, yes, a DBT protocol, and you have to guess correctly on random swaps of cables, 12 out of 15 tries

Good luck. So far, I am not aware of anyone being able to do that. I think even Randi will offer $1million on it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I have personally, noticed a big difference between cheap VIDEO cables and better made (generally more expensive, though not insanely expensive) VIDEO cables.
my $0.02

Jack

You should read this link on video cables. But, specifically the alternate cable and lengths used 16ga, 120V power cables.
Also, the test was not with a high resolution TV or video feed:

http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_vid.htm

 

[brushro]

Well, not sure of that cable construction, or gauge, or the equipment you are using, their input and output impedance as that may cause high frequency roll off when the cable has high capacitance

and a preamp is passive with high output impedance of a volume control.

That can and will roll off at an audible level.

But, if you have modern, well designed components and a cable with average capacitance, then there is only one explanation to your perceptions, biased and unreliable. Good cables are just not tone controls, nor smart enough to tone down specific bands.

What you really need to do is compare the cable under bias controlled conditions, yes, a DBT protocol, and you have to guess correctly on random swaps of cables, 12 out of 15 tries

Good luck. So far, I am not aware of anyone being able to do that. I think even Randi will offer $1million on it.

 

[Jack Hammer]

You should read this link on video cables. But, specifically the alternate cable and lengths used 16ga, 120V power cables.
Also, the test was not with a high resolution TV or video feed:

http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_vid.htm

Interesting, though there seemed to be a bit of missing information. Specifically, the 'quality' and types of cables used for the comparison(different brands or same ones?, etc). Whereas they found no percievable difference between a 6ft and a 50ft COMPOSITE VIDEO cable in there testing, I can easily see and reproduce a difference between a cheap (~$10?)(sorry don't know brand, had them a long time) COMPONENT VIDEO cable and the Acoustic Research PRII ($50) component video cable I'm using between my reciever and TV. Both are 6ft. This is especially noticeable when when I choose my source as my PS2 (specifically when I play SOCOM II). The cheaper cable gives me a grainer picture. The ARII cable makes for a cleaner and clearer picture. I can see hidden things much easier. I really don't notice a difference when viewing tv, and i've never really bothered to pay any attention while watching dvd's.

For audio cables, I haven't been able to discern any difference at all between analog cables or any difference between digital cables. I use the AR PRII's for $15 ea from AC4L for peace of mind.

 

[bandit]

In my opinion - if you want to spend money on cables - do it on the video side where the frequeencies involved are much higher. It isn't rocket science anymore to make a decent audio interconnect. I agree very much with Gene - the only time you can truly hear a difference is when the cable is poorly designed. I guess you'd also hear a difference in a "malfunctioning" cable. There are many other areas in the audio chain to spend hundereds or even thousands of dollars that make a real difference in audio quality. The last place I'd waste my money is on the audio interconnects.

Bandit.

 

[JoeE SP9]

Hey JOe,

Got the Gallos hooked up and running sweet!!!!I'm doing some serious, listening, watching, tweaking, etc. But man right now!!!all I can say this thing sounds seamless, you wouldn't believe it, the speakers are seamless and disappear.....I'm a little freaked out right now, I'm about to pop in Revenge of the Sith.

I'll post tomorrow or Monday when I calm down a bit.

I would believe. With 2 12" sealed subs in front with the Spectra's the Model 1's connected to the SPW-1 for the rears I know and understand.

 

[googdot]

Folks, remember our mantra:

only poorly designed cables are sonically distinguishable ....

Agreed!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Interesting, though there seemed to be a bit of missing information. Specifically, the 'quality' and types of cables used for the comparison(different brands or same ones?, etc).

Here you go:

The 2 m. cable was a standard video cable.
The 15 m. and 31 m. cables were standard 16 gauge AC extension cords, seasoned by years of use outdoors. The 46 m. cable was these two plugged together

A standard video cable and a standard 120V power extension cable. Does a brand name really matter for that extension cable? It wasn't even 75 ohms! Just a 120V power cable used as a video cable out to 150 ft!



Whereas they found no percievable difference between a 6ft and a 50ft COMPOSITE VIDEO cable in there testing,


This is why I asked you to read it carefully. You missed the bigger picture, totally.
A video cable, designed to be a video cable was compared to a 120V AC extension cable, not another video cable at all.


I can easily see and reproduce a difference between a cheap (~$10?)(sorry don't know brand, had them a long time) COMPONENT VIDEO cable and the Acoustic Research PRII ($50) component video cable I'm using between my reciever and TV. Both are 6ft. This is especially noticeable when when I choose my source as my PS2 (specifically when I play SOCOM II). The cheaper cable gives me a grainer picture.


Yes, this is the claim.
I am questioning that claim, that is all. After all, it wasn't a controlled comparison, so who knows how reliable the observation.