buying denon5805 (AVC-A1XV)

[msc]

hi, audioholics,

I am msc from Asia. I am moving to my new house soon and I think its time to reward me with some HT electronic. Currently, I am running denon entry level AVR 1604 for 5.1 system, and I am always happy with it. That make me think about denon at the first place when buying a new receiver.

I came across with denon flagship AV receiver 5805 (name as AVC-A1XV in Asian region), the price is about USD7800 (converted from local currency), and I understand the MSRP is about USD6000 in states, it's still within my budget (I already got the approval from my wife )....

I am so glad to find the 14 pages in-depth review done by Gene here, but the review scared me away!!!!! I am lost now, should I buy? I don know.

my main concerns is :

i. The review mentions that setup for this receiver is tough, and maybe need a Ph.D. to do it properly!!! I don have one.... I am going to buy the receiver from a local audio shop, they do selling and service for denon products, but they are not an authorized dealer. The audio guy says he knows nothing about 5805, and if I get the receiver, I have to do the setup by my own! I am not a true "audioholic" and not really confident I can setup the unit and run for best performance (I didt attend the 8 hours class... ). am I going to get a very bad sound if the receiver is not setup properly??

ii. what speakers run best with 5805? pls do suggest me some. I am going to run 7.1 or 7.2 ( will try to fight more budget from my wife, honey u look wonderful today. can I discuss something with you...). and for your guys info. there is only one audio shop here, they only selling focus audio, psb, NHT and wharfadele, therefore I don have much choice here. and for some reasons (warranty and high shipping cost) I cant buy online. However, just name me some good speakers, I can always try to look for them in another city (100 miles away)..

iii. how many subs should I buy. I am running my system mainly for movie (DVD), about 90%; and rest for music and game (PS2). my new HT room is about 15ft x 25ft. the 5805 supports up to 3 sub, how many should I go, two 10" subs, or just one bigger 12", 15 or 18" sub? I read many posts here and many of you highly recommended SVS sub, but again, they only sell internationally via online. my second choice is HSU.

iv. I know this might not a very "fair" comparison, but just hope to hear some comment from you guys. Denon 5805 Vs NAD T773. denon is always my first choice, but if I really need to give up the 5805 (because of the setup issue), I will go for NAD T773 as pre/pro and couple with an amp for front. worth to buy? The audio guy told me that denon receiver produces "sharper" or "higher tone" (sorry, I don know the correct, but what he means is denon produce relative sharper or higher tone than other, like marantz or NAD, not soft enough for music playing)????

lastly, just wanna ask a "stupid" question.. can the weight of a receiver plays as an indicator for its quality? the denon 5805 is about 44kgs , 97lbs.... just weighs like my wife .... and the audio guy always shows his customer, the NAD is much heavier than yamaha, becoz they are made from kind of "better" component (transformer?)....


thanks....have a good day.

 

[Takeereasy]

Wow, MSC, looks like you've got a great budget and some well researched choices. You might not need a PHD to set up that 5805 but it is a complicated piece of machinery. Unless you plan on running audio to more than one room I think it may be overkill for your 15 by 25 room. On the other hand if you do get this receiver you can say that you own arguably one of the best receivers in the world. The weight of this receiver does indeed relate to the quality of the product. Those big amps weigh a ton and require some big heatsinks. I've always been a big fan of the idea that you should get the best equipment you can afford, but I think you could get away with spending a lot less on a receiver. On the other hand if you want to get some big and inneficient floorstanders then the 5805 should have no trouble powering them to their finest.

As for speakers I am a huge PSB fan. PSB Platinums are some of the best speakers I have ever heard regardless of cost and are what I would choose from the group you mentioned. They are also some of those inneficient speakers I was talking about. NHT and Wharfdale are also supposed to be great manufacturers. If I were suggesting speakers to someone with your budget I'd name B & W, Paradigm Reference or Signature (they also make some fantastic subwoofers), Energy, and Monitor Audio.

As for Subs I'd think you'd be fine with one big sub, but who knows, there are more factors than length by width when it comes to determining how big or how many subs you need. If you really want an SVS sub contact them with your room dimensions and they'll help you out, their web address is svsubwoofers.com.

Does your local shop offer you the chance to demo the equipment in your house? If so then I'd try both the Nad and the Denon before you commit. I do think that the Denon 5805 may be overkill like I said, but from the review on this site I'm also incredibly impressed with it. When it comes to worrying how "sharp" the Denon makes music sound I wouldn't. The guys from this site that listened to it are very critical music listeners and would have let you know.

Good luck with your purchase.

 

[gene]

The AVR-5805 is a bit tedious to set up which is why I went through great lengths discussing setup tips in my review for the benefit of consumers and certified installers. Setup properly the 5805 delivers unprecedented performance for music and movies but it does require some patience and learning. If you are not too tech savvy you may wish to look into a solution thats simplier to setup and operate. the downside is they usually have much less tweakability and configuration options.

Great care must especially be taken with Audyssey setup on the 5805 otherwise you risk making your system sound worse than better. The good news is you can always defeat it if you don’t like it.

RE: Denon AVR-5805 vs NAD T773
While the NAD is certainly a nice receiver, IMO, there is no comparision between the NAD T773 and the 5805. The 5805 has a superior preamp/power amp section, processing, bass management, switching etc. HDMI/DVI, IEEE1394 and D.Link is just icing on the cake.

The 5805 is a true workhorse and will work with pretty much any modern day loudspeaker package from the leading manufacturers. I have had great success with Axiom, RBH Sound and M&K products when partnered with the 5805. The other products mentioned in this thread will also work just fine.

In your room I would suggest 2 subs configured as L/R and select quality bookshelf type speakers and let Audyssey or your Installer find the best splice between them and the subs. You may wish to check out the Axiom EP500’s we just reviewed. Really nice and not too pricey. There are of course other great options in this price range as well. Fortunately we have so many good choices which drives high value in many of these products.

Most importantly, address your room acoustics before plopping down all of this money on gear otherwise your efforts may not pay off. A great system in a bad room usually sounds worse than an average system in a great room.

Please refer to our dedicated Acoustics Section and Set-up Tips for further study.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I am running denon entry level AVR 1604 for 5.1 system, and I am always happy with it. That make me think about denon at the first place when buying a new receiver. I came across with denon flagship AV receiver 5805 (name as AVC-A1XV in Asian region), the price is about USD7800, and I understand the MSRP is about USD6000 in states, it's still within my budget (I already got the approval from my wife )....

That's quite a step up from a 1604, don't you think? Did you hit the lottery? That receiver is ideally built to run two 5.1 surround rooms, having 10 channel outputs. I'm pretty sure the 5805 can be had around $4800 right now in USD. Shipping costs via online would be another story.

The audio guy says he knows nothing about 5805.
The audio guy told me that denon receiver produces "sharper" or "higher tone" than other, like marantz or NAD, not soft enough for music playing)????

I think you answered your own question. I own a 3805, and it produces a very similar sound to a high end Marantz. It's a pretty honest sounding amp, very quiet between sound passages. This may or may not be true compared to your 1604. Other than mine, I've only experienced the 2803 and 5803. All were excellent.

how many subs should I buy? my second choice is HSU.

How many can you afford? How about two of these? You'd better reinforce your room. Better yet, your house. I'm a big proponent of 12" or larger subs. I like that deep, gut wrenching bass. I am a basshead.
http://store1.yimg.com/I/hsusubs_1852_1453591

lastly, just wanna ask a "stupid" question.. can the weight of a receiver plays as an indicator for its quality? the denon 5805 is about 44kgs , 97lbs.... just weighs like my wife .... and the audio guy always shows his customer, the NAD is much heavier than yamaha, becoz they are made from kind of "better" component (transformer?)....

There are no stupid questions here. Scientifically, no. Honestly, absolutely. Weight plays a factor in the size of the power supply, transformer, and heat sinks. The larger and heavier these items, the louder the amp will play - longer, with very little distortion. If you supply the power, you'll need to control the heat. Control the heat, and you'll control distortion. Less distortion equals cleaner sound, better highs, deeper bass and absolute silence between sound passages as stated earlier.

Now go spend some money and make us proud!

 

[Takeereasy]

I know better than to argue with either Gene or Buckeye. If you are going to listen to anybody on the site at all those are two of the best guys you could get advice from. For myself I don't know how interested I'd be in the 5805 for anything less than a multi-room instillation. Yes it's awesome, it kicks everything's butt that is in the same price neighborhood, and on and on. I just don't think msc needs to be in that neighborhood. Let's say that he does go with some inefficient floor standers. I seem to remember somone writing a pretty nifty article stating what a fantastic deal using a Yamaha Receiver and an Emotiva Amp could be. Can't recall who it was but I think it was someone who gives good advice . For a one room install I think there are more affordable routes that would provide very similar end results. There is a law of diminishing returns. This is just one room 15' by 25' right?

For the sub question I'd defer to you guys for 100% sure. I don't think the guy with the $200 Polk sub (that's me ) could tell you guys anything, seeing as how I learned at least 50% from you two guys. I did think that one big sub could pressurize that room sufficiently, but for all I know he could have 30' cathedral ceilings and the room could be open on 3 sides. I do think that 2 of those HSU's would be awesome, and two Athena 500's would be just as good if not better I'm sure.

In short I'm not 100% in agreement that you need the 5805 msc. I think it would do a fantastic job, and since you do seem to have a huge budget (you lucky dog), it may be a perfect fit for you.

To reiterate, I'm not arguing with Gene or Buckeye, I just have a bit of a different opinion. Their opinions are much more valuable than mine, unless we're BBQ'ing, then I am the king.

 

[msc]

thanks for all the inputs.

I agree it is really a big jump from my denon 1604 to 5805. But what I am thinking is, am I going to upgrade very often? maybe not for coming few years if my new receiver works very well and suits my need and the market trend. Therefore, I am looking for one new receiver which can last, or maybe till the release of latest DTS format, heard DTS new format supports up to 13 chs? anyway, i think it's going to take at least five years or more to get popular here.. we are slow here.

as i said, denon is always my first choice, i came across with 5805, and their lower model 3805 (i know there is a 4806 model, but i didt see it from local denon website, not sure it's arrived here or not). The price for 5805 is about USD 7800, meanwhile 3805 cost about USD 1000. very big different.

ok, let’s see :

i. i got the budget for 5805 (yeap, i am lucky dog to make some good money recently).

ii. my room is 15 x 25 x 10, no windows.

iii. running system mainly for dvd.

iv. not running for multiroom. only 7.2 for that single room.

v. tower fronts, 2 12" subs, bookshelf surrounds.

which model should i go? i believe the 3805 should be able to rock me very well, but i got the budget for 5805 (i am just worry about the setup), i don know should I speed more money for that, what kind of improvement will i get, or what i will get is not as much as what I have to speed?

yeap, buck, i love that HSU VTF-3, i will get 2. I managed to get a very good price from a store last night, about USD 720 each (HSU selling for USD699 online). Thanks.......

btw, what does standing wave means? anyone?

ok, if drop about the denon, any other suggestion, NAD (heard they have a bad reputation on quality issue?) or yamaha 2500 or z9? marantz?

lastly, about the interconnector and wire. I don really keep much budget for that. if i get the 5805, and just buy the normal speaker wire, it's going to be a very bad system? or i should just get a cheaper receiver and speed little bit more for wire?

thanksssss

 

[jaxvon]

There's nothing wrong with getting cheap speaker wire. As long as it is thick enough, it will work just fine. Have you seen the cable articles? There's lots of great info there. Video cables are worth spending a little extra on. If you really want to get some awesome interconnects for video and audio, then check out Blue Jeans. I'm not sure if they'll ship to you though...

For speaker cable, just get some 14ga or 12ga speaker wire. If you want overkill, then 10ga would be fine too. I'm not sure what the equivalent of those sizes are in Asia though, as those are American measurements (and you know how backwards we are with measurements).

 

[sploo]

btw, what does standing wave means? anyone?

For some information on standing waves see:

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/gbssci/phys/mmedia/waves/swf.html

For information on room treatment (as quite rightly pointed out by gene):

http://www.realtraps.com/facts.htm
http://www.realtraps.com/art_small_rooms.htm
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Having put a nice set of speakers in a lousy room, I'm learning that room acoustics are really important (and that you can treat the problem).

EDIT: Oh yea, I too think a 5805 is total overkill for your room. Think about a 3805, or maybe an Arcam AVR300, and spend the rest on your speakers (or the wife )

 

[msc]

I finally made up my mind and got the denon 5805 yesterday. I undersatnd few of you think this machine will overkill my room, i got your point, but i just love this machine and cant resist it....

I am running it for 7.2 now, with bi-amp for fronts, sound wonderful, and i still have one ch available, wonder should i bi-amp the centre... the setup is not that tough as i thought before, of course because i got the "bible" from gene - the review, it's really helps me alot and make the setup becomes easier... thanks. but i need more time to tune and play with it....more time, more time....

I havent move to my new place, so the setup is not final yet, lot of work to do with room treatment, wiring, speaker placement and mounting and setup the video.....i have ordered the infocus 7210 and browsing for a dvd player now. Now, i am running the 5805 with my new HTPC...... everything is just great..cant wait to setup my new room...

 

[rikmeister]

get the oppo dvd player it is 199.00 . same price everywhere so get it from oppo.

it is the best dvd player out there for that money bar none

 

[MACCA350]

wonder should i bi-amp the centre

If your center is the same as your L/R then definately bi-amp it the same way, even if its not the same it may still benifit.

browsing for a dvd player now

If you want the best on the market now, go the Denon 5910. If I had the cash, I would

Quote from Secrets (Audiohilics have not reviewed it yet) bench tests:

The first breakthrough feature on this player is definitely the inclusion of Silicon Optix’s new chip; the Realta HQV. This is, in a nutshell, a new chip based on the Teranex video processor. For those not familiar with the Teranex, it is a $60,000 commercial video processor that has long been considered the de facto video processing standard. This chip offers true 10-bit processing end to end and is one of the only chips on the market that will do true 1080i to 1080p inverse telecine de-interlacing. While this chip does offer a full scaling capability, Denon has chosen to only use the chip for its I/P conversion and video post processing. As a de-interlacer, the Realta is the best I’ve seen. It combines the features I love about both the Faroudja and Silicon Image chips and doesn’t have any of their drawbacks.

Checkout their Bench tests here
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all&type=DVD+Player&manufacturer=15&maxprice=0&deInt=0&mpeg=0

And their review here
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_2/denon-dvd-5910-dvd-player-4-2005-part-1.html

 

[sploo]

Infocus 7210 and a 5805

I'm running an Arcam AVR300 with a projector made from an OHP and a gutted LCD monitor. Couldn't lend me a couple of... grand could you?