Buying a Plasma, maybe an LED. Which one?

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BigAl614

Audiophyte
Hey Guys and Gals,

New here so here are my questions for the experts.

I'm getting ready to head back to the States for my leave and am going to buy a new living room TV. Room is 19ft long, 15ft wide with a 4ft x 8ft opening into the kitchen on one side. Good viewing room with some ambient light during the day.

I have been looking at the following tv's

1. 55" Vizio XVT Tru-LED VF551XVT2A

2. 58" Samsung Widescreen Plasma 1080p HDTV Model: PN58B540

3. 58" Panasonic Viera S1 Series Plasma 1080P HDTV

4. 58" Samsung Widescreen Plasma PN58B650

5. 60" LG Plasma Full HDTV 1080P 2,000,000,:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio

6. 58" Panasonic P58V10

So now your input, which one and why if you don't mind. What's good about the particular model you suggest and what you don't like about it or any of the others incase I'm leaning toward one that isn't your pick. I have a 40in Samsung in the bedroom that I bouht last Dec and very happy with it so far.

Also, I arrive back in Country on Christmas morning and would like to order a set and have it waiting on me "but" if that's a bad decision and I should wait until I get back and go look at them that's what I will do.

Where would you recommend the purchase or best price found that you know of?

Thanks for your help guys.............Al (the FNG here)
 
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B

bacchus99

Junior Audioholic
Most of the folks here are gonna say go plasma and most will say go panny plasma either the S, G or V series. I'm looking at the G series myself. Read some cnet reviews. The V series is there number 2 TV and the G series is there number 3 tv. Hope this helps.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Hey Guys and Gals,

New here so here are my questions for the experts.

I'm getting ready to head back to the States for my leave and am going to buy a new living room TV. Room is 19ft long, 15ft wide with a 4ft x 8ft opening into the kitchen on one side. Good viewing room with some ambient light during the day.

I have been looking at the following tv's

1. 55" Vizio XVT Tru-LED VF551XVT2A

2. 58" Samsung Widescreen Plasma 1080p HDTV Model: PN58B540

3. 58" Panasonic Viera S1 Series Plasma 1080P HDTV

4. 58" Samsung Widescreen Plasma PN58B650

5. 60" LG Plasma Full HDTV 1080P 2,000,000,:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio

6. 58" Panasonic P58V10

So now your input, which one and why if you don't mind. What's good about the particular model you suggest and what you don't like about it or any of the others incase I'm leaning toward one that isn't your pick. I have a 40in Samsung in the bedroom that I bouht last Dec and very happy with it so far.

Also, I arrive back in Country on Christmas morning and would like to order a set and have it waiting on me "but" if that's a bad decision and I should wait until I get back and go look at them that's what I will do.

Where would you recommend the purchase or best price found that you know of?

Thanks for your help guys.............Al (the FNG here)
Glad to hear you are on the way back. I'd suggest you go plasma in most cases. However don't buy until you are set to be back for a while. TVs will keep getting better and cheaper. Personally I prefer size first. A 73 inch DLP tv is my idea of a good time.

Get a nice stereo receiver and a pair of Behringer 2031p's and you are set for some good movie watching.
 
njedpx3

njedpx3

Audioholic General
Vote for Panny Plasma

I would suggest Plasma, even with the ambient light during the day. I have some ambient light during the day and my Plasma does fine. Larger is better, you don't have Pioneer plasmas on you list ( they are getting hard to find) so I would suggest the TC-P58S1 or TC-P58V10 or even better TH-58PZ800U

Good Luck!

Forest Man :)
 
B

BigAl614

Audiophyte
Glad to hear you are on the way back. I'd suggest you go plasma in most cases. However don't buy until you are set to be back for a while. TVs will keep getting better and cheaper. Personally I prefer size first. A 73 inch DLP tv is my idea of a good time.

Get a nice stereo receiver and a pair of Behringer 2031p's and you are set for some good movie watching.
Thanks Dude, but I will be coming back and heading to Afghan sometime in 2010 also.

My wife could enjoy the new tv while I'm gone but we/she spends alo of time in our bedroom because it's such a comfortable room and maybe with a new tv in the living room it would get used more by us while I'm home and her when I'm gone again? I have a 50in Hitachi Unltravision that the new tv would be replacing so 55in is the smallest I would be willing to go (Vizio LED) The 73in does sound nice but I want a crisp picture to go with the size, that's why I was leaning towards the Plasma and maybe the LED more than the DLP? I guess I could wait, I'm sure the 65in Plasma's will be $1500 before you know it? How good is the pic on the 73in? Can it compare at all to the 58in Panny or Samsung plasma?

I have an Onkyo 100 watt surround reciever and JBL L7's and will modernize those items at a later date at some point.
 
B

BigAl614

Audiophyte
I would suggest Plasma, even with the ambient light during the day. I have some ambient light during the day and my Plasma does fine. Larger is better, you don't have Pioneer plasmas on you list ( they are getting hard to find) so I would suggest the TC-P58S1 or TC-P58V10 or even better TH-58PZ800U

Good Luck!

Forest Man :)
Thank you for the input, I'm not really worried about the ambient light during the day. I don't believe it's enough to really hurt the viewing. I didn't put the Pioneer on the list because I haven't seen or read anything about them?
Sam's is selling a few of the tv's I listed at what seem to be good prices and the warranty that I get helps in the cost plus if I have an issue I can drive down there and return it instead of having to ship it back.

CR rated the Samsung 650 higher than the Panny but the S1 rated a little higher than the Sammy 540. Tough calls for this newbie.
 
S

shoryuken

Audioholic Intern
Great Suggestions

I had a similar question but you guys addressed it. Thanks for the advices.
 
B

BigAl614

Audiophyte
Glad to hear you are on the way back. I'd suggest you go plasma in most cases. However don't buy until you are set to be back for a while. TVs will keep getting better and cheaper. Personally I prefer size first. A 73 inch DLP tv is my idea of a good time.

Get a nice stereo receiver and a pair of Behringer 2031p's and you are set for some good movie watching.
Ok, now you really have me looking at 65in DLP. I would go for the 73 but I'm out of Country alot and it seems that they have a few more problems than the 65in do?

Just another decision for me now :{ LOL
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
First of all, JBL L7s! Nice speakers, I'd suggest holding on to them. Get more power for them, and look for some JBLs from the same family of speakers or look in the L--T line to get your full surround sound. I personally have a set of L20Ts and they sound fantastic if positioned correctly.

Second, I recommend the S1 Panasonic. From what I understand it's the same panel and basically the same TV as the G10 series minus the THX mode. Apparently the match eachother PQ wise if ISF calibrated. The S1 series is extremely cost effective and the picture is outstanding. Dark color and shadow detail on plasmas has yet to be bested by an LCD or LED backlit panel. Local dimming LED panels are the only LED tvs worth looking at, sidelit are terrible. Sure they are nice and slim, but the light is noticeable in the dark, which I find to be particularly annoying.
 
B

BigAl614

Audiophyte
Ok, now this is the one that really has my interest up. I was planning on the 58in but you gouys are making me think about BIGGER now! lol.

Model: TC-P65S1
Panasonic's TC-P65S1 65" 1080p Plasma HDTV is perfect for sports and cinema-quality movies. Our Neo PDP technology delivers sharp, detailed images, deep blacks and remarkable brightness, and all with lower power consumption. This Plasma HDTV ensures full-time 1080 TV lines of resolution, even during fast moving scenes in sports and movies. With Viera Link, you can control your compatible Panasonic DVD recorder, Blu-ray disc player, home theater sound system and HD camcorder, all with a single remote and helpful on-screen menus.

Picture/Display:
1080p moving picture resolution; ATSC / QAM / NTSC
16:9 widescreen aspect ratio
Native contrast ratio: 40,000:1
Dynamic contrast ratio: Infinite Black over 2,000,000:1
600Hz sub-field drive
Anti-reflective filter
100,000 hour panel life
Game mode
Viera Image Viewer

Inputs/Outputs:
3 HDMI inputs (2 rear, 1 side); Viera Link
Energy Star compliant

Dimensions:
Assembled with Stand: 40" H x 16.4" D x 62" W
Assembled w/o Stand: 38.0" H x 4.1" D x 62" W
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
This model can be found online for about $2500 shipped.

If that’s within your budget, then you would be hard pressed to find a better combination of screen size and picture quality.
 
B

BigAl614

Audiophyte
Cool, Found it at Sam's for $2550 and thanks for the PM. Tried to reply earlier but wouldn't let me until I had 5 posts.
 
C

CypherMax

Junior Audioholic
As everyone else has said, plasma is the way to go. LED is just a gimmick LCD needs to try to keep up with the bottomless blacks that plasmas can produce. I personally own a Pio Pro-111FD and a Panasonic tcp42 s1. Both are awesome! The Pio, of course, is better. So, if you can, I would stongly recommend locating a Pioneer plasma while they are still available. If not, then Panasonic is your next best bet. Their whole line it very good and only gets better as you get into the G series. If you feel like waiting, Panasonic has bought Pioneers plasma tech and might be producing a new plasma with that technology. This is a promising rumor. Good luck!
 
S

Surroundpro

Enthusiast
Led

Plasma can have great picture but lets not forget the drawbacks, heat , life, glare, burn in to say the least. LED is strongly and quickly gaining the attention it deserves . It has some key featres to gain that as well. Take a look at the Samsung 8000 or 8500 series for top performance, look at the 7000 series for some purely awesome performance on a budget... hope this helps !
 
sawzalot

sawzalot

Audioholic Samurai
Plasma can have great picture but lets not forget the drawbacks, heat , life, glare, burn in to say the least. LED is strongly and quickly gaining the attention it deserves . It has some key featres to gain that as well. Take a look at the Samsung 8000 or 8500 series for top performance, look at the 7000 series for some purely awesome performance on a budget... hope this helps !
I have not heard anyone talk about burn in on the newest plasma models also the heat has been drastically reduced as well as energy consumption, they are valid points but not really an issue with plasmas these days. The Sammy 8500 has some glitches that are still being worked out as of present time I believe they are close with a firmware update but geez that seems bad for such an expensive panel I would wait for the next gen. of 8500 led's.
 
nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
Let's take a closer look!

Plasma can have great picture but lets not forget the drawbacks, heat , life, glare, burn in to say the least. LED is strongly and quickly gaining the attention it deserves . It has some key featres to gain that as well. Take a look at the Samsung 8000 or 8500 series for top performance, look at the 7000 series for some purely awesome performance on a budget... hope this helps !
I’ve already pointed out the inferiority of the Samsung 7000 series to you in this thread here.

But let’s address some of the charges that you’ve laid at the feet of Plasmas.

Life: Let’s use the Panasonic S1s for reference which have a 100,000 hour panel life. First you need to understand that panel life doesn’t mean that the panel just simply dies when it hits its rated life span. What the rating really means is that the panel will be half as bright once it reaches its panel life rating. So if we look at the 100,000 hr rating of the S1s you will find that it would take you 11 years and 151 days of running your TV 24/7 to reach half brightness. If you run your TV only eight hours a day it would take you 34 years and 90 days to reach half brightness. Based on these numbers I would make the assertion that life span is not an issue with current PDPs.

Burn-in: Read this article that was pointed out by jliedeka. Clearly this is not an issue, and you should become more informed before you go around handing out advice on the matter.

Glare: This is straight from a CNET review of the Samsung 7000 series: shiny screen can cause reflections in bright rooms; and from the CNET review of $4,000 55in 8500 Series (Top of the line): glossy screen reflects ambient light. So to suggest that LED LCDs are immune from glare is just plain wrong and misleading at best.

Heat: Yes, PDPs tend to run warmer than LED LCDs…so what, what’s your point? As long as all of the components in the TV were designed to run under these conditions it becomes a moot point. A/B class amplifiers run warmer than D class amplifiers, so does that that make them automatically inferior on all fronts?

Since you claim that LED LCDs are such a great value I would like you to intelligently address these two points:

1.Price to screen size ratio:
$4,000 will buy a 55in Samsung 8500 series, but that same $4,000 would buy you a 65in Panasonic V10. That’s an 18% increase in diagonal screen size and 39% increase in total viewing area for the same price. Here is the comparison visually. So I would say that the value lays with PDPs not LED LCDs.

2.Poor of Axis viewing of LCDs:
Let’s go back to Samsung’s top of the line model for reference. The following is an excerpt from the CNET review which can be found here.

Uniformity: The biggest weakness of LED-based LCDs comes in the arena of off-angle viewing, and the 8500 follows suit. When we moved just one couch cushion to either side, the blacks lightened considerably, becoming brighter, more washed-out, and less realistic, and taking the rest of the image quality down with them.

Even when in the sweet spot, simply hard leaning to either side caused the far edge of the screen, especially letterbox bars and other dark areas, to lighten noticeably (we were seated about 9 feet from the 55-inch model, so seating distances that are farther away will shorten the angle and lessen this issue). Blooming also became significantly more obvious from off-angle, and a bluer tinge crept into the dark areas. Dark scenes and low ambient lighting make the washout and increased blooming more obvious, but the falloff was still visible in brighter scenes and lighting. The 8500 seemed to suffer from this issue worse than other LCDs in our subjective comparison, but again that's most likely because its black levels were deeper than the others to begin with.

Can you honestly call a $4,000 dollar display that only looks great from single seating position, a great value?

Let’s get the facts straight before handing out advice and making claims about LED LCDs awesomeness.
 
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M

mike29892

Enthusiast
5. 60" LG Plasma Full HDTV 1080P 2,000,000,:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio

Plasma I really favor over LCD unless you are going to be using the tv as a computor monitor of any type. And I own 2 different LG plasmas and like them a lot so Im guessing this particular one would be good as well.
 
C

CypherMax

Junior Audioholic
I’ve already pointed out the inferiority of the Samsung 7000 series to you in this thread here.

But let’s address some of the charges that you’ve laid at the feet of Plasmas.

Life: Let’s use the Panasonic S1s for reference which have a 100,000 hour panel life. First you need to understand that panel life doesn’t mean that the panel just simply dies when it hits its rated life span. What the rating really means is that the panel will be half as bright once it reaches its panel life rating. So if we look at the 100,000 hr rating of the S1s you will find that it would take you 11 years and 151 days of running your TV 24/7 to reach half brightness. If you run your TV only eight hours a day it would take you 34 years and 90 days to reach half brightness. Based on these numbers I would make the assertion that life span is not an issue with current PDPs.

Burn-in: Read this article that was pointed out by jliedeka. Clearly this is not an issue, and you should become more informed before you go around handing out advice on the matter.

Glare: This is straight from a CNET review of the Samsung 7000 series: shiny screen can cause reflections in bright rooms; and from the CNET review of $4,000 55in 8500 Series (Top of the line): glossy screen reflects ambient light. So to suggest that LED LCDs are immune from glare is just plain wrong and misleading at best.

Heat: Yes, PDPs tend to run warmer than LED LCDs…so what, what’s your point? As long as all of the components in the TV were designed to run under these conditions it becomes a moot point. A/B class amplifiers run warmer than D class amplifiers, so does that that make them automatically inferior on all fronts?

Since you claim that LED LCDs are such a great value I would like you to intelligently address these two points:

1.Price to screen size ratio:
$4,000 will buy a 55in Samsung 8500 series, but that same $4,000 would buy you a 65in Panasonic V10. That’s an 18% increase in diagonal screen size and 39% increase in total viewing area for the same price. Here is the comparison visually. So I would say that the value lays with PDPs not LED LCDs.

2.Poor of Axis viewing of LCDs:
Let’s go back to Samsung’s top of the line model for reference. The following is an excerpt from the CNET review which can be found here.

Uniformity: The biggest weakness of LED-based LCDs comes in the arena of off-angle viewing, and the 8500 follows suit. When we moved just one couch cushion to either side, the blacks lightened considerably, becoming brighter, more washed-out, and less realistic, and taking the rest of the image quality down with them.

Even when in the sweet spot, simply hard leaning to either side caused the far edge of the screen, especially letterbox bars and other dark areas, to lighten noticeably (we were seated about 9 feet from the 55-inch model, so seating distances that are farther away will shorten the angle and lessen this issue). Blooming also became significantly more obvious from off-angle, and a bluer tinge crept into the dark areas. Dark scenes and low ambient lighting make the washout and increased blooming more obvious, but the falloff was still visible in brighter scenes and lighting. The 8500 seemed to suffer from this issue worse than other LCDs in our subjective comparison, but again that's most likely because its black levels were deeper than the others to begin with.

Can you honestly call a $4,000 dollar display that only looks great from single seating position, a great value?

Let’s get the facts straight before handing out advice and making claims about LED LCDs awesomeness.
Right on bro! Lets also not forget the main difference between the two technologies, Picture Quality. LCD(LED) displays have a very video look to them and dont always look natural. Yea they look killer for sports and video games but when it comes down to bluray it just doesn't look right. Plasma can handle just about any source you put through it and makes all look as close to real life as possible. Again this is personal preference, but isnt the point of a HD tv to look as close to real life as possible? ie color reproduction, contrast radio, skin tone, blacks etc. LEDs are so popular because they are flashy(in store demos) and usually in the right price point. However you can get some killer plasmas for equal or lesser price as you have stated. I just hope plasma has a spot in the HD display future. Its a matter of quality, almost a format war if you will. VHS vs. Betamax vs. laserdisc= inferior tech won. But DVD beat them all then bluray beat HD DVD. I'm not saying LED is horrible by any stretch just that based on the a for mentioned trend the format thats cheaper and easier to produce usually wins. But in the last 4 years as the world is slowly adopting the better tech with bluray maybe its a sign that the world will take a second look and see that plasma is the better tech in displays and let it compete with LCD....
 
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