Building new system -- help on integrated amp, please

U

udp

Audiophyte
Hi all,

I'm building out my first real hi-fi system, and we're upgrading from listening to music through the speaker on my iPhone 6 (seriously). We're not looking for anything ridiculously great, just a nice starter system that I'll likely be happy with for 5 years or so.

I've pretty much settled on the Fluance XL7F speakers (lots of great reviews, amazing price), and I am planning on mostly listening to ripped FLAC files served by a Cubox hooked up to a NAS holding all of my files. What I need help with is deciding on an integrated amp. I'm very interested in the Yamaha a-s801 amp, but there are very few reviews online and nowhere close that I can go listen to one. Does anyone know how this compares to the NAD 356BEE or the Cambridge Audio 651A? It looks like the Yamaha has a fairly good DAC and also has a phono stage, in case I want to add the Pro-Ject Essentials II turntable later.

Any advice?

Thanks,

Chris
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Welcome to Audioholics, Chris.
What I need help with is deciding on an integrated amp. I'm very interested in the Yamaha a-s801 amp, but there are very few reviews online and nowhere close that I can go listen to one. Does anyone know how this compares to the NAD 356BEE or the Cambridge Audio 651A? It looks like the Yamaha has a fairly good DAC and also has a phono stage, in case I want to add the Pro-Ject Essentials II turntable later.
Yamaha receivers and integrated amps have an excellent reputation in general, so I doubt if the A-S801 model will disappoint you. I have heard a similar model, the A-S700, and I thought it was very good. It looks like the A-S801 model is a newer but similar version. You may find more reviews of the older models.

The most important part of any amplifier is how much power it can put out. Yamaha designs good products, and rates them honestly. The A-S700 was tested and found to be at least as capable as Yamaha claims, if not somewhat more powerful. I would guess the 801 will also be like that.

You can easily look the various features and hook up capabilities for each of the amps you are interested in and compare them, along with prices. I suspect Yamaha might beat Cambridge Audio and NAD on price.
I've pretty much settled on the Fluance XL7F speakers (lots of great reviews, amazing price)…
I don't know what the price is for those speakers, but I see major flaws in the frequency response graphs of those speakers. See the large step up that is between 500 Hz and 1 kHz, right in the middle of the mid range where our hearing is most sensitive. It's about 10 dB, you will definitely hear that. And I'm guessing it won't sound good. The rest of this speaker's frequency response above and below the mid range is also ragged looking. The bass is heavily exaggerated, and although that may sound attractive at first, it will ultimately sound boomy. There are better sounding speakers with smoother looking frequency response curves.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=835:nrc-measurements-fluance-xl7f-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/fluance-xl7f-speaker-system-test-bench
Look at the purple trace. It looks similar to the graph above.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Is it just me, or does it look like the polarity of the mid-range might have been reversed on the test speakers? Those notches could also be from a mic that wasn't aligned properly- the link shows a much better response.

http://fluance.com/product/XL7F_High_Performance_Three_way_Floorstanding_Loudspeakers.eng-7.html

The review shows "Chart A: 20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)"

I recently looked at a lot of integrated amps because I wanted a dedicated 2 channel system that does MM/MC cartridges with a bit more power, enough inputs, Low Pass out (if High Pass was included, even better) and pre out/power amp in. What I found is that most mainstream manufacturers still aren't up to speed with what used to be common offerings from almost everyone, although I am well aware that this type of equipment isn't nearly as popular as AV receivers. I think the real reason for this not taking off is the fact that it's far easier to say that an AVR sounds just as good and has a lot more features, then quote the power output by adding all of the channels together. The features are there but sometimes, the performance isn't what they say.

One line that intrigued me was the Sony ES- I worked for a large Sony dealer that carried ES and I still have one, but it's 30 years old and doesn't have the power or some of the other features I wanted. The sound is excellent- smooth, wide response, low distortion and all of the Sony integrated amps I owned exceeded their specs by a wide margin when tested by several magazines and reviewers.
 
Last edited:
U

udp

Audiophyte
Thanks Swerd and highfigh, I appreciate the help and suggestions. I had only seen the frequency response curve that highfigh linked to, and had read some good reviews on both audioholics and soundandvision. These don't look perfect, but remember where I'm coming from: iPhone speaker. I really want to get an amp that I can use to progressively upgrade speakers with 4 or 5 years from now.

Thank you also for the speaker suggestion, Swerd, but to do some price calibration, the Salk Songtower is $2000 per speaker; the Fluances are $500 per pair! I may have a little more room in the budget, but it has been hard enough to convince my wife that this is something we need. Is there a suggestion for a better speaker in the $500-$800/pair range? We mostly listen to jazz, classical, and rock.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Ascend CMT340-SE are probably best speakers at your price point. In addition if you dead set on towers - Philharmonic has nice modified Pioneer towers
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html or this - http://emptek.com/r55ti.php - I have heard them and very sound very nice.

and speaking of philharmonic audio - if you willing to bump the budget a bit more - you can get Philharmonitor - absolutely stunning sound for it's price.

Any of speakers I have mention would be huge improvement over flatulence brand speakers.

Salk makes some of most amazing speakers, but Dennis (sole proprietor of Philharmonic) helped to design many of Salk speakers. Dennis's AA modified SP-FS52 - $275/pr + shipping is a great speaker
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Is it just me, or does it look like the polarity of the mid-range might have been reversed on the test speakers? Those notches could also be from a mic that wasn't aligned properly- the link shows a much better response.

http://fluance.com/product/XL7F_High_Performance_Three_way_Floorstanding_Loudspeakers.eng-7.html
Fluance says the crossover frequencies for the XL7F are at 800 and 3500 Hz. The large step that appears in the FR curves is at about 500 to 700 Hz and is centered at 600 Hz. If the mid range drivers were accidentally wired out of phase with the woofer, I'd expect to see a V shaped dip centered at 800 Hz.

Also both Sound & Vision and SoundStage measurements showed similar results from what I'd expect were different examples of the speaker. Interestingly, Fluance chose to ignore those and show a third measurement which differs. Personally, I'd trust what SoundStage publishes.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Thanks Swerd and highfigh, I appreciate the help and suggestions. I had only seen the frequency response curve that highfigh linked to, and had read some good reviews on both audioholics and soundandvision. These don't look perfect, but remember where I'm coming from: iPhone speaker. I really want to get an amp that I can use to progressively upgrade speakers with 4 or 5 years from now.
The amps should meet your expectations. But the speaker, maybe not.

I realize the general price of the Fluance speakers, and understand that no Salk speaker is in that price range :).

I do agree with the speakers suggested by BoredSysAdmin.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Is it just me, or does it look like the polarity of the mid-range might have been reversed on the test speakers? Those notches could also be from a mic that wasn't aligned properly- the link shows a much better response.

http://fluance.com/product/XL7F_High_Performance_Three_way_Floorstanding_Loudspeakers.eng-7.html

The review shows "Chart A: 20Hz - 20kHz (measured @ 2m, plotted @ 1m)"

I recently looked at a lot of integrated amps because I wanted a dedicated 2 channel system that does MM/MC cartridges with a bit more power, enough inputs, Low Pass out (if High Pass was included, even better) and pre out/power amp in. What I found is that most mainstream manufacturers still aren't up to speed with what used to be common offerings from almost everyone, although I am well aware that this type of equipment isn't nearly as popular as AV receivers. I think the real reason for this not taking off is the fact that it's far easier to say that an AVR sounds just as good and has a lot more features, then quote the power output by adding all of the channels together. The features are there but sometimes, the performance isn't what they say.

The linked trace is from the manufacturer and the scale is compressed by a facotr of two.

I think it is pretty clear that speaker has trouble where the ear is very sensitive.

I think that speaker will sound bad. Don't trust most subjective reviews, especially not from owners and subjective reviews in the press are next to useless.

I personally would stay well wide of that speaker.

One line that intrigued me was the Sony ES- I worked for a large Sony dealer that carried ES and I still have one, but it's 30 years old and doesn't have the power or some of the other features I wanted. The sound is excellent- smooth, wide response, low distortion and all of the Sony integrated amps I owned exceeded their specs by a wide margin when tested by several magazines and reviewers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Fluance says the crossover frequencies for the XL7F are at 800 and 3500 Hz. The large step that appears in the FR curves is at about 500 to 700 Hz and is centered at 600 Hz. If the mid range drivers were accidentally wired out of phase with the woofer, I'd expect to see a V shaped dip centered at 800 Hz.

Also both Sound & Vision and SoundStage measurements showed similar results from what I'd expect were different examples of the speaker. Interestingly, Fluance chose to ignore those and show a third measurement which differs. Personally, I'd trust what SoundStage publishes.
This is one of the reasons I like to run response tests- I have seen production-model speakers with wiring errors, for whatever reason, and it makes corrections very easy. I would have expected the dips to correspond to their stated crossover points too, but it's hard to know if something was out of spec, a component was changed without updating the data, etc.
 
U

udp

Audiophyte
Thanks, all, for your help. Has anyone listened to the R55Ti speakers? Any opinions?

Also, on the original question, am I reading this right that I'll be happy with any of the amps I listed?

Thanks
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
If you plan to buy speakers blind (meaning not listening to them before you buy) you had better be getting them for a song or the vendor better have a in home trial period. Ascend offers I think 30-60 days in home trial for example.
 
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