Building custom home, question about pre-wire, and dolby-atmos in wall?

[rb397u]

Okay, I'll try to make this short and simple. I am having a custom home built for me. We are still in the planning stages, and I would like to know, what is the best way to pre-wire the home for surround sound?

This is the receiver I am going to buy. I would like the living room to have a 5.1.2 setup (front left and right dolby atmos speakers, rear surround left and right speakers, then a center and a subwoofer. I would like all speakers to be in wall, minus the sub of course. My questions are this:

1. Is it okay to use dolby atmos speakers in wall? Will I still get the same sound quality and effect?

2. What is the best way to pre-wire these for an in-wall setup?

3. I know what receiver I want, but have no clue on speakers or sub...any suggestions? My total budget is $1000-$1100, and I can get the receiver new for $485.

I am thinking of having the builder just precut holes in the walls for the speakers to be placed in. Is there a better way? My TV will be mounted in wall (flush with the wall), and I should be able to access all my connections from an area/room behind the TV wall.

I guess I would have the builder run wire under the floorboards into the back of the room for the rear surround?

Sorry, I have quite a few questions as this is my first time making a home audio setup and I want to make sure it's done right!

 

[XEagleDriver]

RB,
Welcome to the forum. Here are some ideas on answers to your questions:

1. No, Atmos is specifically designed to provide sound from overhead (direct or reflected off the ceiling from below) and would not work well at all from an in-wall speaker position.
- See the linked Dolby Atmos diagram, it also shows where the surround speakers should be placed.

2. Need more information. Please provide a room diagram and description with dimensions, openings (windows, doors), obstructions like beams, planned seating location, etc. Then we can be of more help.
- Are you absolutely sold on in-walls as the only acceptable solution?

3. Re-think your spending plan. A $1,100 budget is too low to support a 5.1.2 system and spending nearly half on the receiver is the wrong approach.
- 70-80% of the budget should go towards the speakers and sub and to be very honest your budget will not support a decent 5.1.2 HT system.
- Alternate idea: Design and wire for an EVENTUAL 5.1.2 system, but only buy and install a 3.1 (L/C/R + sub) system for now. This approach will allow you to get much better quality and HT performance, while enabling a 5.1.2 system in the future as more funds are available.

Do not have the builder pre-cut holes until you have decided on the speakers. You need to know their size and opening requirements. With the access to the wall behind the TV you described, speaker install should be quite easy and cutting wall board is a simple task.

The surround speaker wires can be under the floor boards or above the ceiling depending on the room (1st floor/2nd floor) and the construction, please provide more information.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[rb397u]

Thanks for the feedback! Okay, I can be a little more flexible with my budget to $1500, so that leaves $1000 for the speakers and sub. I would really appreciate some suggestions in this area, because I am pretty clueless right now.

1. I am thinking, since atmos speakers won't work well in wall, that I would just get the atmos speaker add-on modules pair, and place them just above the front in wall speakers, bookshelf style (or wall mount the modules, but I would prefer bookshelf style). Would this be a good solution? I want to retain an in wall system as much as I can.

Here is a diagram of what I mean, not drawn to scale. (I would also take suggestions on speaker placement, height etc). TV is 60". Viewing distance likely to be between 12-14 Ft.

2. Since we are still in the planning stages, I don't know specifics like beam placement and such, however, here is an image of a similar home to give you a general idea of windows and seating position, though my living room will be a bit larger than this.

House will be one story, wood flooring in living room. I hope this is enough information, please ask if more is needed.

 

[XEagleDriver]

RB,
Thanks for the diagram and picture, that helps a lot.

1. I have big reservations about the ability of add on modules to work if mounted on the front wall (unless I misread the layout diagram in your post). Atmos speakers need to reflect the sound off of the ceiling to the seating location, the angles from the front wall are too severe to be able to reflect adequately IMHO. Looking at the picture of the room, in ceiling Atmos speakers mounted to the left and right of the seating position, a bit in front (per Dolby diagram/angles) is a much better solution.

Front L/R speakers should be placed approximately the same distance apart as your viewing distance, creating a near equalateral triangle. For example, with a 60" screen, about 5 foot across, placing the speakers about 3 feet to the left and right of the screen edge will give a speaker separation of 11 feet.

Height wise, you want the in-wall tweeter about level with seated ear height. Buying in-wall speakers with aimable tweeters is a good idea and provides a bit more flexability on height placement. An aimable tweeter also helps the center channel, which should be placed like you diagramed.


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[rb397u]

Thanks.

I have been doing some research, and I think a better solution for me would be to forget about using the dolby atmos add-on modules, and instead just use another pair of in-ceiling speakers as my "atmos" speakers.

So, I would have two in-ceilings near the front of the room acting as "atmos" speakers. And two in-ceilings near the back of the room acting as rear surround.

My setup would be this:

Front-left, Front-right and center in-wall.
Rear surround left and right, in-ceiling towards back of room.
two in-ceiling speakers near front of room would act as my "atmos speakers".

Thoughts?

Also, this is the speaker package I am considering buying: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008GDYK6I/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AED492BX4II6G

 

[XEagleDriver]

RB,
Good decision on dropping the add on modules from your design.

A few more thoughts for your consideration:

1) Atmos in-ceiling speakers should be in the back half of the room, a bit in front of the seating location.

2) You are building a 5.1.2 system, therefore you will have "surrounds", not "rear surrounds" (RS's are the final two speakers in a 7.1 or 7.1.2 system). Getting this terminology straight may help prevent wrong AVR connections (and frustration) when installing your system
- FYI: RS speakers should be located well behind the seating position, not an option in your room.

3) The weakness I see in the Amazon Klipsch speaker package is two fold; the sub-woofer and the front three speakers.
- I would not be concerned about the sub so much, because you can (and will ) replace it easily.
- But with in-walls, you are literally cutting out many other options once they are installed!

4) Consider getting a better speaker for the front three (L/C/R), like this PSB CW-262 option (~$150 each).
- The heart and soul of your HT sound system is the front three speakers, the quality you choose here will make or break the over all performance.
- BTW: A "sideways mounted center" (like in the Amazon package) is not required or desired for an in-wall solution. It is a marketing outgrowth of the original need to place a traditional box center speaker on a table/audio furniture below a TV.
- Audio wise you are better off with a third, vertically oriented, center identical to the L/R speakers. I have had both over the years, and the vertically oriented, identical center is way better.

5) For surrounds, a pair of wall mounted PSB CW-260 (~$150 each) on your back wall would be an outstanding option due to the bi-pole/dipole design (I can explain why if you are interested).
- However, for in-wall or in-ceiling surrounds and Atmos you can use a much less expensive speaker than the front three, like these in-walls from Monoprice, and still get the job done.
- The surround/Atmos speakers receive much less audio content than the front three and are not primary for either music or dialogue (the two most important elements in the HT audio experience).

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

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[rb397u]

That sounds great!

Question, assuming my living room will be big enough. Could I, like you said, place the in-ceiling atmos speakers towards the back half of the room but still in front of the seating position AND put my surrounds in-ceiling as well in the back of the room vs in-wall?

 

[XEagleDriver]

RB,
Yes you can (not a political inference). The surrounds would be further back and split wider than the Atmos which would be more forward and split less wide. Please see attached picture for a Dolby recommended arrangement.

Please keep in mind, you will need to adapt the Dolby recommendation to your room and Dolby's solution does not arrive engraved on a stone tablet. Also ensure a reasonable amount of distance (a few feet minimum) between the surrounds and the Atmos so they do not interfere with each other.

To attempt a description; the surrounds would be about in line with the plane going through your ears while seated (90 to 110 deg from your nose) to the outside of the couch/seating location, whereas the Atmos in-ceiling would be closer to the rooms fore/aft center line (about 70-80 deg from your nose) and slightly in front of you.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[rb397u]

Wonderful. Thanks!