Building Bookshelf Speakers that outperform b&w602s

ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
Hey guys, especially @TLS Guy

I have been really impresses by the depth of knowledge. I am thinking of doing a DIY project for a friend of mine who is in love with the qualities of my 602s....

I am curious how hard it would be to build something which is equal to or outperforms the 602s, which I realize is kind of relative, but I said it :)

Best
Todd
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
There's no way to teach that, here. You need to educate yourself with books, articles on this site, and then come up with a design, and see if anyone here will take the time to check, and maybe simulate your speakers response.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
You've got big ambition, looking at the posts you've just made. But you have to feed that ambition with knowledge.
 
ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
Was looking around at the kairos build that seems like the most celebreated DIY bookshelf build around town.... :)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I am thinking of doing a DIY project for a friend of mine who is in love with the qualities of my 602s....

I am curious how hard it would be to build something which is equal to or outperforms the 602s, which I realize is kind of relative, but I said it :)
There are a number of good designs for 2-way speakers that will easily (in my opinion) outperform B&W 602s. They are available as designs where you have to buy the parts and build a cabinet, or as kits including cabinets.

What sound quality of the 602s does your friend like? Does he own them now? And more importantly, what other speakers does he like or dislike. Finally, how much do you want to spend?
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Swerd - can you please fix the embedded image links on this awesome thread.

OP - This is a very good bookshelf speaker design and well documented first DIY project.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/building-your-first-diy-speaker-the-mb27.81354/
Oh yeah, I've been lazy about redoing those photos.

The design in question is called the MB-27
http://murphyblaster.com/content.php?f=MB27.html



In the meantime, I do have that entire write up, with photos, as a pdf file. If the OP is interested, send me your email address by PM, and I'll send it to you.
 
ToddMorrill

ToddMorrill

Audioholic Intern
Let me simplify this,

I have the 602s and am building the 18" dayton ported from TDS guys build.

I keep on noticing that there is a hole in my 602s ability to produce male vocals which i am guessing are 70-90 hz range. They seem muddy. I love everything else. I am going to see if adding a high pass and plugging the ports fixes it to my satisfaction, but if not, I would love an excuse to upgrade.

I am thinking 800 dollar budget, and looking at the kairos build....

The only think is if I set the high pass at 60 or 70 I dont need all that bass extention that comes with Kairos... but who knows it looks awesome. Anything else to consider?
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Ideally I could do a diy for something slightly better than the 602s for less than the price of the 602s, the issue is international shipping just kills me as I live in south america. And I am wondering If I might be able to deck out a cdc machine that my buddy is buying and just crank out some speakers and test the market...
The MB27s, as I built them, cost $490 a pair in August 2012 prices in the USA. That included a pre-made and pre-finished cabinet with curved sides. The same speaker in a similar cabinet with rectangular sides cost $442 per pair.

Send me your email address in a Private Message (PM) and I'll send you the full write up with many build photos. Even if you build a different design, you'll learn a lot from this.
Looking for something I can match with an @TLS Guy 's 18" dayton ported sub build. So I am thinking something that gets high passed at 60 or 70.
These speakers go down to 55 Hz, so they would work well with any 12" or larger sub.
I am not good at describing speaker sounds, I really like the forward slight brightness of the B&W's. I cant explain it though, I just like what I like.
I am familiar with the 602s. Many people like that "forward slight brightness" at first, it gives the impression of great detail. With time, most people experience "listeners fatigue" and start disliking it. It's caused by B&W's Kevlar woofer and their use of a very high crossover frequency. The Kevlar woofer has some high frequency resonance that, with the right music, can sound harsh and noisy. B&W's crossover doesn't filter that noise out.

The MB27, in my opinion, is a better 2-way than the 602. Dennis Murphy designed it, and it looses nothing in the all important mid range – the frequency response across that range is essentially flat. But it avoids the harsh upper mid range/lower treble of the B&Ws. I also believe, the 5½" woofer in the MB27 makes more widely dispersed mid range than the larger B&W woofer. The helps create better imaging.
The biggest issue I currently have is deep male voices in movies get muddied when they talk deep which I am guessing is around the 75hz mark from googling male voice range :) I am hoping htat adding a sub and a highpass will clean up this minor snafu, but we will see
Also a problem with the 602s. B&W got too greedy with the cabinet bass tuning. To get more bass, they overemphasized the frequency range where the male voice can sound too bassy. This also makes some music sound muddy.
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
My guess OP should try out WaveCrest HLV-1 speakers and probably be very happy with them.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
FWIW, OP lives in South America somewhere, if I recall correctly.
 
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