Budget gift system for a friend

[MidnightSensi2]

I actually started looking for a budget system for a friend a bit back. He already has a Sony 52" LCD TV. For the holidays we are all going to pitch in and buy him a home theater as a group gift.

So, there is a main room with a patio to the back of it. He has been talking about having 5.1 in the main room with stereo outdoors. I was thinking a Denon AVR-791 because it is the lowest end Denon with ability for a second zone (plus I get a discount on Denon gear).

For the rears I have a pair of Axiom inwalls I have left over from doing the distributed sound in my house. They aren't sensitive enough, imo, for the fronts through, with that Denon. I think with the smallish amp I need to find him some speakers with more sensitivity. SVS has really low sensitivity, Axiom is sub 90....HSU is pretty sensitive. I donno though in this price range...

So what for the front three channels and his subwoofer?

Room is maybe 20ft by 20ft, with one open area to the kitchen. Acoustics are bad, with tile floor, a glass back wall.

Been kinda tinkering on this for a while and the holidays are coming pretty quick!

 

[sholling]

You don't give a budget. Three Behringer B2030P studio monitors will set you back $225 shipped. Or three Infinity P162 for $255 shipped. Or two P162 and a PC250 for $320 shipped.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I would say since the receiver and rears are covered, I think 900 or so for the fronts and sub would have to be about max. Maybe a bit more, but, its split between three people, so, adding a bit starts to add a lot.

Maybe the passive behringers are an option. Maybe I'll drop by Guitar Center tomorrow and give them a listen.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'd just order this, but ask customer service if they can replace the surrounds in the package instead with a second subwoofer.

Don't put too much stock into anechoic sensitivity ratomgs... 90wpc is enough to drive most speakers to very loud levels without clipping in room, especially crossed with a sub at 80hz... How many people actually watch movies at reference levels?

I mean those 87 db sensitivity towers with 90 wpc at 9 feet away without factoring in any room gain would give you ~101 db unclipped. If reference level is 85 db, you could listen to any movie at 81db / 4 db below reference levels, which is still REALLY LOUD, and not hear a hint of clipping when factoring in +15db peaks. Sure a 91db sensitivity speaker would hit reference levels, but is that extra loudness worth limiting your choices?

 

[STRONGBADF1]

Ascend CBM-170 SE's across the front and 2 dayton subs should do the trick for $788 +s&h. Add $110 to upgrade to the 340 center.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I mean those 87 db sensitivity towers with 90 wpc at 9 feet away without factoring in any room gain would give you ~101 db unclipped. If reference level is 85 db, you could listen to any movie at 81db / 4 db below reference levels, which is still REALLY LOUD, and not hear a hint of clipping when factoring in +15db peaks. Sure a 91db sensitivity speaker would hit reference levels, but is that extra loudness worth limiting your choices?

I know, the hardest thing about this has been operating in this budget.

The reason sensitivity kind of has my attention is my first real speakers were a pair of Dynaudio Audience 70s that I powered with an Elite series Pioneer amplifier....110-watt or so. They sounded pretty good, but, when I'd really crank it to reference you'd hear some strain. I always thought it was just a limit of the speakers. Then my amp went out, and I substituted one of my pro-amps off my rig to 'hold me over' in the mean time...well...did that ever give new life to the speakers. It was like the veil was lifted.

More recently I did a test, I connected my 98/dB sensitivity speakers to an old Sony 90-watt receiver I had, and other than the Sony's hiss, the speakers still absolutely CRANKED.

So, it kind of drew me to the conclusion that when using a budget amplifier, sensitive speakers are the way to go. But, maybe in this budget there isn't that option (with reasonable sound quality, I mean, I don't want to hand him some cheap PA speakers).


...


The other thing that has be caught up, is it is hard to recommend speakers I haven't heard. I guess I can always return them provided there is a good guarantee.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

Ascend CBM-170 SE's across the front and 2 dayton subs should do the trick for $788 +s&h. Add $110 to upgrade to the 340 center.
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

The Ascends seem pretty easy to drive, 8-ohm and 89db/w sensitivity...at least doable. Wonder if one Dayton would do the trick, for WAF.

 

[STRONGBADF1]

The Ascends seem pretty easy to drive, 8-ohm and 89db/w sensitivity...at least doable. Wonder if one Dayton would do the trick, for WAF.

I would imagine @ 20' x 20' it wouldn't be awesome but better than nothing. If he could place it near-field it should be ok. I just figured 2 is better than one and it fits the budget.

 

[jostenmeat]

In all honesty, I would be more worried about the Ascends in terms of WAF than I would a sub. Textured black, but then again, it was you who was pushing for the (ok I had to look it up) Awlgrip. Well, the 170SE are boxy looking too, FWIW.

Otherwise, I think it's a great value. Yeah, it needs a sub, at least in your place it definitely does.

I looked up DIY kits (as they seem to be a very good compromise for someone like me), and items like the recession buster are sold out (not that they were full kits it appears). In any case, albeit with hopefully a higher budget, if I ever upgrade speakers, I'm guessing it will be some DIY or at least semi-DIY.

If this is for "anyone else", I am happy with the suggestions here. Well heck, even you liked your Dyns, so yeah, I think it'll work out.

Well, they don't have the resolution of the Dyns I've heard (only Contours or better), but you can get more extension with even slightly better sens than the Ascends with a (superceded) PSB combo.

edit: I know I keep referring to you, but I find it hard to recommend stuff for you on any particular budget and wishlist . . . . even if for someone else

$200 center, I recommend the C60, but likely too big for this situation.
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/all_psb_specials.htm

$280 for the oversized bookshelves, B25s (they crank very well for their price point and marketing/design intent).
http://www.saturdayaudio.com/picturepages/image_specials_march.htm

$400 for sub . . . . . . . . um, a Dayton kit (pending further investigation):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-760&source=googleps

edit#2, sorry same sens on the B25s; I had my own PSB mains' specs in mind . . .

 

[MidnightSensi2]

In all honesty, I would be more worried about the Ascends in terms of WAF than I would a sub. Textured black, but then again, it was you who was pushing for the (ok I had to look it up) Awlgrip. Well, the 170SE are boxy looking too, FWIW.

Good point, inwalls just don't make a lot of sense for his front though. There are two doors on either side of the TV and then not a whole lot of room, but enough, for some speakers on either side (obviously a stop would need to be placed for one of them).

Inwalls could go on either side but would be really tucked in the side....

Well, here is a 'drawing' (don't want to post a pic since it isn't my house):

See, it's kind of hard to decide the route to go. There is room for a center channel, but the L and R is tough.

Maybe inwalls across the top? Wonder how that would sound....

 

[MidnightSensi2]

edit: I know I keep referring to you, but I find it hard to recommend stuff for you on any particular budget and wishlist . . . . even if for someone else

Haha, I don't spend huge cheese on systems compared to some, but, these sub-1000 setups are tough. I mean, there aren't many options, just compromises. Then the room isn't the easiest to deal with, as you can see. If it was me, I'd be choosing another room, but, hey...that's where they use it. *shrug* I hope to make the best of it.

 

[jostenmeat]

Ok, with this kind of setup, the 170SE won't be as offensive, I think*. They are very easily wall mountable, but now you have to budget for those too. You could do 3 of them across.

The Infinity Primus that have been recommended could be the best value going in budget audio, going from what I've read.

The PSB Images would be easy to wall mount, but I think I'd recommend "ruining" them by drilling into the backs, and using the HTD mounts that RMK uses. The xovers are mounted on the terminal cups themselves. So, drill above these, and pull out either/both the driver and xover to get rid of the dust. If I did it all over again, I would not chosen Alpha B1s for my rears in favor of the prefabbed mounts/keyholes, and would have drilled into the superior B25s.

Here are some of the P162s, though I do not know the recommended/best way to mount them:
http://store.audioholics.com/product.php/2019/0

For PSB, you can get a pair of B15s (considerably smaller than B25s) in Sienna for $259 as NIB.
https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm

Then add the Sienna C40 center, from Saturday which I linked before, $199.

However, I'd do the PSB if a horizontal center is necessary. Which may be the preferred method for aesthetics. (Of course Infinity makes a horiz center too.)

OTOH, three vertically arrayed bookshelves spanning the top/front would probably sound best for HT. In this case, both the Infinities and Ascends can be bought individually; not the PSBs.


edit: I forgot to mention another benefit of the Sienna PSBs and that is the halfway decent finish. Not sexy really, but better than the 170Se. The Infinity, I dunno. Here are my towers in Sienna, both with and without flash:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=760865&postcount=40