Budget amp for a Denon 1913 & EMP Speakers

[myke]

I need an amp for this 5.1 system. I love it, but it needs a little more power. When I use it the volume level is constantly in the 70 range, but the receiver stops at 85. The 1-50 range is a whisper. The peak volume is pretty loud, but if I have people over it lacks.

 

[avengineer]

I need an amp for this 5.1 system. I love it, but it needs a little more power. When I use it the volume level is constantly in the 70 range, but the receiver stops at 85. The 1-50 range is a whisper. The peak volume is pretty loud, but if I have people over it lacks.

How much more power do you think you need? You're at 90 now. To double your perceived volume you need 10X the power (900 watts). Just doubling your power results in a 3dB change.

How are you planning to connect your 1913 to a power amp? It has no pre-amp outputs, so you're using an amp to line out adapter..or three?

What speakers are you using, and how far do you sit from them?

 

[afterlife2]

Welcome back! Well seems you can't use a pre-amp with the Denon. Like avengineer said you have enough power. I'm guessing you have EMP bookshelves? or the mic left everything low, just turn them up manual to you liking. Not everything is set in stone with audyssey, adjustments are fine. Also how big is the room? You might want to consider a pair of Pioneer 52's if everything else fails. Fantastic budget speakers: Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-FS52-LR Andrew Jones Designed Floor standing Loudspeaker (each): Electronics

 

[Adam]

In addition to what the two said above, let me ask - have you run Audyssey?

I'm curious about your statement that the volume stops at 85. Perhaps you have the volume limiter engaged, although "85" doesn't appear to be one of the options in the manual. In the manual, the volume will either display "0 - 98" or "-79.5dB - 18dB" depending on your choice of an absolute or relative volume display. You can set a volume limit, with options of 60, 70, or 80 (using the first scale, which is what you're using based on your description).

I own the Denon AVR-E400, which is very similar to your 1913 in terms of power rating. Granted, I don't often listen to loud audio, but when I checked it out to see if I thought the power was enough, I thought it was VERY loud and still dynamic when set to 0dB. So, hopefully this is just a setting issue that you can change and be happy.

 

[myke]

Nice. I didn't even check to see if I had pre-amp outputs.

I'm running the EMP e55ti up front. The EMP e5ti in back. Center is a e5ci. Elemental designs sub. The room is pretty big est. 15x20 with a vaulted ceiling.

I have run audyssey in the various seating positions like it said and I left everything as is except for the sub. The sub wouldn't turn on after so I changed it.

Like I mentioned before when I'm watching or listening to music the 1-50 range doesn't make any sense. I basically take the remote and fly through the entire range. Its not like my previous system where every increment is a noticeable change and i never got to the max volume ever. It was a pioneer rated around the same power, but lacked all the network features etc. I'm generally watching movies at 70-75. If i need more power it does stop at 85.5 but it looks like there is more range left on the volume bar I can't use. I was assuming the amp had a built in feature that was limiting me from pushing it to hard.

Since it seems like this is a setting issue ill go mess around with it in a bit. One other question. A couple times recently my sub made a random clipping noise out of nowhere. Ive had it a few years now, but It wasn't set loud but made a loud "knocking" sound. It has done this maybe 5 times in the last couple months. Maybe this is a setting issue as well.

 

[afterlife2]

What did audyssey give you on your level calibration for your speakers/SUB? I'd turn them up at least 5db up, but leave the sub at 0db and get your best BASS CD and manually adjust the volume on your SUB(between 9-12 o'clock position) to your liking to see if that is the problem.

 

[avengineer]

What did audyssey give you on your level calibration for your speakers/SUB? I'd turn them up at least 5db up, but leave the sub at 0db and get your best BASS CD and manually adjust the volume on your SUB(between 9-12 o'clock position) to your liking to see if that is the problem.

This is not recommended procedure for every situation, though. Listen first, then adjust, but watch for sub stress. There's a reason Audyssey set it where it did.

 

[afterlife2]

This is not recommended procedure for every situation, though. Listen first, then adjust, but watch for sub stress. There's a reason Audyssey set it where it did.

I understand that, but If the OP doesn't try different things then how will they find the problem? It was just a suggestion, but I can dig what you are saying though. I think it's helpful advice, since audyssey doesn't always set everything right IMO.

 

[avengineer]

The concern would be that if for example a 300W sub was set correctly, increasing the sub level by 5dB would require the sub amp to supply just shy of 1000W. That's why I strongly suggest that sub adjustments be done in small increments with an ear to sub stress and distortion.

 

[afterlife2]

The concern would be that if for example a 300W sub was set correctly, increasing the sub level by 5dB would require the sub amp to supply just shy of 1000W. That's why I strongly suggest that sub adjustments be done in small increments with an ear to sub stress and distortion.

I know that's why I said leave the sub at 0db on the receiver, then increase vol. as needed on the sub. I'm sorry If you misread what I meant.

 

[avengineer]

I know that's why I said leave the sub at 0db on the receiver, then increase vol. as needed on the sub. I'm sorry If you misread what I meant.

Sorry, no misread. It doesn't matter where you change the sub level, the problem still exists.

If you don't like the sub level you get with Audyssey, and have to kick it 5dB, I'd go searching for the reason. Hint: Audyssey doesn't just automatically make a 5dB error in sub level all the time.

 

[myke]

Out of work. Time to tinker.

So I redid Audyssey while no one was home. Nice and quiet etc. This is the output it gave me.

Front - small
Center- small
Sub-yes
surround-small

----------

front left - neg 3.5
front right - neg 3.0
center- positive 3.5
sub - neg 11.5
surround left - neg 8.0
surround rig - neg 1.0

-----------

crossovers
front - 40hz
center - 60hz
surround - 40hz


-----------

dynamic volume - I selected No this time, but I'm pretty sure the first time I selected Yes. Maybe this is what limited the volume range?

-----------
As for the results. The volume does go higher now to 95, but the sub is lacking big time. Almost to where you can't hear it. Thats a easy fix though if I change it manual.

The only thing that continues to baffle me is the low spectrum of the volume range. 1-30 is whisper quiet to where you can't even understand words. Once I go over 30 i can start to make out words etc., but it's not until you get to 50-60 where it is normal. A movie once again I'd watch at 75-80.

In addition to the Audyssey setup results. Don't pay attention to the surround left. That one is closest to seating position number 1.

 

[PENG]

Out of work. Time to tinker.

So I redid Audyssey while no one was home. Nice and quiet etc. This is the output it gave me.

Front - small
Center- small
Sub-yes
surround-small

----------

front left - neg 3.5
front right - neg 3.0
center- positive 3.5
sub - neg 11.5
surround left - neg 8.0
surround rig - neg 1.0

-----------

crossovers
front - 40hz
center - 60hz
surround - 40hz


-----------

dynamic volume - I selected No this time, but I'm pretty sure the first time I selected Yes. Maybe this is what limited the volume range?

-----------
As for the results. The volume does go higher now to 95, but the sub is lacking big time. Almost to where you can't hear it. Thats a easy fix though if I change it manual.

The only thing that continues to baffle me is the low spectrum of the volume range. 1-30 is whisper quiet to where you can't even understand words. Once I go over 30 i can start to make out words etc., but it's not until you get to 50-60 where it is normal. A movie once again I'd watch at 75-80.

In addition to the Audyssey setup results. Don't pay attention to the surround left. That one is closest to seating position number 1.

I really think you have had something messed up and strongly suggest you do a processor reset to factory default and then run Audyssey again following instructions to the letter. It is also important to turn the sub volume down until Audyssey set the sub level to within the range of 0 to -5. Audyssey recommend that you first set the sub volum to the mid point (12 O' clock position) but if that resulted in Audyssey setting the sub level too low then you need to turn it down. I have to turn mine down to the 9:00 O'clock position.

I have had quite a few Audyssey equipped Denon and Marantz and I have never come across the kind of weird results that you are having.

 

[afterlife2]

How far are you from the listening position?
surround left - neg 8.0
surround rig - neg 1.0 These is definitely something wrong. That a big difference in L/R.
Check this out too: Tutorial: AV Receivers and Amps Auto EQ Set up - YouTube

 

[myke]

I really think you have had something messed up and strongly suggest you do a processor reset to factory default and then run Audyssey again following instructions to the letter. It is also important to turn the sub volume down until Audyssey set the sub level to within the range of 0 to -5. Audyssey recommend that you first set the sub volum to the mid point (12 O' clock position) but if that resulted in Audyssey setting the sub level too low then you need to turn it down. I have to turn mine down to the 9:00 O'clock position.

I have had quite a few Audyssey equipped Denon and Marantz and I have never come across the kind of weird results that you are having.

you are right. Denon tells me to leave it at 12 o clock.

@afterlife. The surrounds aren't an issue as mentioned above. The left surround is closest to seat number one. IMO audyssey did that part right so I'm not drowned out by that one speaker.