Breaking in new speakers

J

Justin D

Enthusiast
So, I just bought a pair of PSB Image 5T's and they should be arriving in a few days. The problem is that I never realized the need to break in speakers before visiting this site and I'm really unsure on exactly how to do it. What's the best way to do it and how long should it take? Please enlighten the ignorant.

Also, should I consider bi-amping these speakers (they'll be running off of a Denon 2805).

Thanks,
Justin
 
J

Jason Coleman

Banned
I'm not sure what the response will be here at this forum, but at AVS, you'll get quite the debate as to whether or not speakers require break-in at all. Personally, I think my Paradigm Studio 100's sounded much better after a few weeks than they did right out of the box. My advice is to listen to as much or little music/movies as you like and let the speakers do their thing. If they "mellow" or "warm up" or "soften" over time, that may or may not be great. If they don't, then it's not really an issue. Were the speakers you listened to in the store "broken in," who knows?

Hopefully you'll like how they sound in your environment and their sound will grow on you.

As far as bi-amping, I'd definitely recommend at least trying it. I'm not sure how hungry your speakers are, but most speakers will benefit from 100 wpc into the highs and the lows as opposed to 100 split between them via the internal crossover. It only takes a few minutes and some extra cables that you already probably have lying around. Give it a shot and see what you think. Just be sure to remove the jumpers on the back of your speakers! :D

Good Luck!

Jason
 
C

cornelius

Full Audioholic
The psb speakers won't take long to break in. Just listen to lots of music/movies and enjoy them.

The 5t have 4 posts on the back, so after a while give biamping a try. I'm not sure how it works with receivers, I've only done it with power amps, but I bet it will sound pretty darn good.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
Now, a word from the "anti" view: Speakers do not need "breaking in". They do not have the microscopic mechanical tolerances and extreme operating temperatures of mechanical devices that actually do need to be broken in, like car engines and firearms. It's another audiophile myth. Any "break in" of the drivers happens during the QC check in the factory. And any change that you hear as you listen to your new speakers for the first few days or weeks is simply your perceptions getting adjusted to the new sound! If you have chosen well (and it looks like you did) the adjustment will be pleasant.

Biamping is only really worthwhile when done with active electronic crossovers, not the passive crossover in your speakers. The mulitple posts on many speakers are there for marketing purposes only, to play to existing audiophile myths. Trust me: the engineers did not put those there. You will get the same result by "biamping" into one set of posts (in effect, bridging your amp -- be sure it's safe to do!). And don't get me started on biwiring! :rolleyes:

There is a good article here on Audioholics on biwiring and biamping. And my web page below has info on other audio myths vs. facts, including the break-in myth.
 
J

Jason Coleman

Banned
Hmmmm....

Rip WF, have you actually tried bi-amping with the 3805? As far as I can tell, everybody that has done so has experienced excellent results (aside from the L/R reversal and "hum"). Otherwise, the bi-amping has "opened" up many of our speakers. Why would you claim that pushing 120wpc into the speaker would be the same as 120 into the lows and 120 into the highs? :confused: Certainly, it's not 240 wpc, but there is a significant difference, especially with a speaker that has a demanding low end.

Weird that a Audioholics moderator would be so vehement about something that seems like a no-brainer.

Jason
 
C

cornelius

Full Audioholic
There are a lot of speakers out there that should only have one set of posts on them, but that does not mean that bi-amping does not work.
 
F

Falp

Audioholic Intern
Speakers do need break-in but you just need to listen to them to break-in and enjoy them getting better every day! :)

For instance I bought a new woofer for my left speaker a few weaks ago (the speakers are 10 years old Celestion 3mkII).

When I pressed the cone, the difference between the two rubber surrounds was huge! The new cone was very hard to move, but now is becoming smooth after many hours of use!

The answer, yes there are mechanical tolerances that get different in time, as the speakers are made of moving/mechanical parts. ;)
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Falp said:
The answer, yes there are mechanical tolerances that get different in time, as the speakers are made of moving/mechanical parts. ;)
Yep, and it takes minutes to break them in, not hours or days. I'm definitely with the camp that says the listener breaks-in, not the speakers. There is much research to support this claim.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
OK, "Rip van Woofer" and "Unregistered guest", here are a few facts from the speaker end of the chain written by someone who makes his living designing hi-fi speakers currently and car speakers previous to that -

A moving coil loudspeaker drive unit consists of a cone of whatever material, supported by a surround which is usually cloth, foam or rubber. However, underneath that cone is a suspension of flexible material that is normally made from cotton, conex or some other type of cloth, heavily impregnated with a resin to stiffen it. The type, hardness and quantity of resin is generally what sets the mechanical properties of the suspension and thus the drive unit.
I can assure you all that this suspension starts changing its physical properties as soon as you put a signal through it and it's behaviour changes drastically over the period of its initial operation and will have a profound effect on the sound of the speaker.

One of my customers when i was designing car speakers required a "break-in" of every sample we provided, which consisted of playing short duration pulses with peaks of up to 35V through the speaker for an hour to loosen things up - their reason for this was to replicate the behaviour and performance of a speaker that had been sat in a car for a year or so, operated and exposed to the variations in temperature and humidity.. One of the products I designed was a high performance 2 Ohm 9x6 subwoofer and it needed a quantity and density of resin that had never been required before by our suspension supplier, in order to pass all the necessary environmental validation testing - when one of these speakers was taken from the end of the production line and swept with a sine wave, you could actually hear the resin quietly cracking, flexing and loosening for 20-30 seconds before it stabilised! Measuring one fresh from the line and then later after the above mentioned one hour break-in would show lower drive unit resonance, lower distortion figures and in the case of full range speakers, smoother frequency response, particularly at high frequencies.

In my current company we always run our prototype speakers in at least overnight and sometimes over a weekend before making any measurements or carrying out listening evaluations. We actually use a very simple method (pink noise, speakers facing each other, one wired out of phase) and i can assure you it DOES make a difference, however it would not be practical to do this for every production pair from the point of view of both physical space and cost - a quick end-of-line sweep test will NOT run the speaker in.

The loosening of loudspeaker drive unit components has nothing to do with perception, imagination or witchcraft - it is a physical fact and, whilst i can't vouch for other manufacturers, in both of the companies i have worked for we design our speakers to take into account how their behaviour and sound changes as they run in - it isn't rocket science!

Adam.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
Quick replies:

Cornelius: nothing precludes a moderator from having strong opinions and expressing them forthrightly. It's an unpaid volunteer position and we have as much right to be misinformed as anyone else! ;)

Certainly, putting more power into a speaker can be beneficial (up to a point), but I stand by my opinion on biamping with passive crossovers being of little benefit. Read the referenced Audioholics article on the subject, at least. It summarizes what I understand to be the current engineering consensus on the subject based on other readings I have done. And sorry, but "everybody says" doesn't cut it, evidence-wise!

Adam: I'm always willing to defer to the expert opinion of a practitioner in the field, as my opinions are merely those of a layperson trying his best to apply scientific standards to a field rife with hype and pseudoscience. But I don't think we're really in profound disagreement here: the audiophile mythology I take issue with is not that break-in takes just minutes, or even an hour or so (as you describe and I concede) but many hours or even days...or weeks! So if I was wrong about the QC check being sufficient, mea culpa. But otherwise I'm stickin' to mah guns.
 
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A

av_phile

Senior Audioholic
It is fairly common for mechanical devices to require some break-in period when new so they can perform at their best. Speakers are electro-mechanical devices. So there's a mechanical portion. They may not be as complex as a car engine, but they have parts that behave like mechanical parts as well. The rubber or foam surround suspension and the spider suspension - all these moving parts require some degree of compliance that may be different when new or freshly made, than when after a few hours or days of intense use.

While I don't subscribe to electronic gears requiring break-ins, like amplifiers, much less cables, there's some argument to look at speaker break-ins as a valid exercise. Some speakers probably don't need one or they may have varying requirements for one. But if this break-in lossens or makes the moving parts more pliant, offering less mechanical resistance than when new, then it's all for the good. Whether this makes the sound better, I leave it to the listener.
 

nthanker

Audiophyte
I have built quite a few pairs or speakers. I sometimes just hook them up, tune my tuner between stations, turn up the volume a bit and let them run for anywhere from 20 ->100 hours. It does improve things quite a bit.
Or,,,, if you don't want to hurry it up, just use them, alot.

Cheers
 
TjMV3

TjMV3

Full Audioholic
Okay, let ask a few questions.

I have a pair of Quad 22L speakers (for my home office). I've been considering picking up two Quad 909 Power Amps, one for the Right Speaker.....one for the Left speaker.

Would this be considered Bi-Amping?

Would I require an external crossover, in order to get an audible improvement?

Not that I'm not happy with the Quads' sound, I am. I was just thinking of the possibilities of even better sound.

And exactly how would I go about hooking such a thing up, from the Pre Amp...to the Amps?
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
TjMV3 said:
Okay, let ask a few questions.

I have a pair of Quad 22L speakers (for my home office). I've been considering picking up two Quad 909 Power Amps, one for the Right Speaker.....one for the Left speaker.

Would this be considered Bi-Amping?
Must be a hell of a home office!

No. Bi-amping means using a separate amp for the woofer of a full-range speaker (no, a powered sub doesn't count!), and another for the tweeter & mid (with a passive crossover still connecting the tweet & mid, in the case of a 3-way speaker. Serious audio geeks sometimes triamp a three way speaker.). Most of the advantage gained thereby comes from using an active crossover between the woofer and tweet/mid which (to greatly simplify) decreases or eliminates the many flaws and compromises of the typical passive crossover. Again I say: seek and read the Audioholics article.

True bi-amping is great for bragging rights, too! :D

If the amps you're thinking of are mono, or if you're bridging them to be mono, you're using "monoblock" amps. Advantage: mucho power (assuming beefy amps, of course), with each amp having its own power supply. For power hungry electrostats that can make a real dif, as you're likely aware. Theoretically, increased channel separation too but since even a cheapo mass-market receiver has more than adequate channel separation that's moot. And monoblocks also confer bragging rights.

Sounds like a plan to me. Go for it!
 
wilmeland

wilmeland

Audioholic Intern
break in

on break in - If you can't hear the difference and are convinced you've just become used to the sound of the speakers, your ears and memory probably arent as sharp as some others. While it may not be a night and day thing and may vary more from one speaker to another, it just makes sense considering the mechanics of a transducer. There will me some change in the way it functions after being run in for a while as opposed to right off the assembly process.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
I stumbled across this site from a google search to find out if I was crazy. I bought a pair of car audio infinity 5/7's. I ran one speaker by itself off an amp in my house for about 8 hours. At first I was mad that it sounded so much worse than my old pioneers, the supposedly lesser speaker. After 8 hours it soudned as good, maybe even better.

But as a scientist I decided to compare with the other brand new speaker. I hooked both up and ran the same music through as a mono sound file off my computer. The "broken in" speaker had a much richer sound. The fresh out of the box speaker had no upper bass, and popped at any bass hit while the broken in speaker had a full sound with no popping.. they were at the exact same power level. I thought I my amp was uneven, or one speaker was defective, or I was crazy. It is hard to trust what people say when you hear truths such as "it will harm your speaker to underpower it. you must buy the expensive amp that can deliver 10 times the rated power just to be sure you have enough" I was happy to see a professional explain the extent of factory qc/ prep on new speakers. Thank you
-anonymous coward
 
cam

cam

Audioholic
Unregistered said:
I stumbled across this site from a google search to find out if I was crazy. I bought a pair of car audio infinity 5/7's. I ran one speaker by itself off an amp in my house for about 8 hours. At first I was mad that it sounded so much worse than my old pioneers, the supposedly lesser speaker. After 8 hours it soudned as good, maybe even better.

But as a scientist I decided to compare with the other brand new speaker. I hooked both up and ran the same music through as a mono sound file off my computer. The "broken in" speaker had a much richer sound. The fresh out of the box speaker had no upper bass, and popped at any bass hit while the broken in speaker had a full sound with no popping.. they were at the exact same power level. I thought I my amp was uneven, or one speaker was defective, or I was crazy. It is hard to trust what people say when you hear truths such as "it will harm your speaker to underpower it. you must buy the expensive amp that can deliver 10 times the rated power just to be sure you have enough" I was happy to see a professional explain the extent of factory qc/ prep on new speakers. Thank you
-anonymous coward
Anyone who says that break-in is a matter of your ears adjusting and not the speaker, I say not true. Unregistered just mentioned the popping sound at any bass hit with a brand new speaker. My ears also experienced the same thing. In my quest for bigger and better sound I'm on my second center, mains, and surrounds, and on my third sub and that popping sound has always been a consistent facter. But always after an amount of time the popping went away. The ear does not hear popping and then after 20 hours just accepts it. No way. The popping dissappears, the ear does not adjust. The bass and mid bass become fuller and warmer once the initial popping is over with. I can only assume that the cone and surround have loosened up. Now the tweeter. While I have tremendous hearing at age 33 (hearing test every year prove it) I for the life of me have never been able to hear a difference of a brand new tweeter and one that has 20-40 hours on it. If a tweeter changes (less bright) over time, then I am none the wiser.
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
Almost eveyone agrees that it takes a little time for the spider & surround to fully break in. A transducer is a mechanical device, so that doesn't sound at all farfetched to me. Some brands claim exhorbitant lengths of time are necessary, but I've never found that to be true.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Unregistered said:
I stumbled across this site from a google search to find out if I was crazy. I bought a pair of car audio infinity 5/7's. I ran one speaker by itself off an amp in my house for about 8 hours. At first I was mad that it sounded so much worse than my old pioneers, the supposedly lesser speaker. After 8 hours it soudned as good, maybe even better.

But as a scientist I decided to compare with the other brand new speaker. I hooked both up and ran the same music through as a mono sound file off my computer. The "broken in" speaker had a much richer sound. The fresh out of the box speaker had no upper bass, and popped at any bass hit while the broken in speaker had a full sound with no popping.. they were at the exact same power level. I thought I my amp was uneven, or one speaker was defective, or I was crazy. It is hard to trust what people say when you hear truths such as "it will harm your speaker to underpower it. you must buy the expensive amp that can deliver 10 times the rated power just to be sure you have enough" I was happy to see a professional explain the extent of factory qc/ prep on new speakers. Thank you
-anonymous coward

You should repeat the experiment in a DBT listeing protocol?

"Breaking Wind", Nousaine, Tom, Car Stereo Review, Jan/Feb 1997, pg 90-94. (Break in myth)

"Test Report: Dynaudio MW 190, 12" Subwoofer", Nousaine, Tom, Car Stereo Review, Oct 1997, pg 83-88. (More break in myth)

He couldn't demonstrate audible differences between brand ne and 150+ hours on it. Some speaker parameters increased, others decreased, no audible differences detected though.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
cam said:
Anyone who says that break-in is a matter of your ears adjusting and not the speaker, I say not true. Unregistered just mentioned the popping sound at any bass hit with a brand new speaker. My ears also experienced the same thing. In my quest for bigger and better sound I'm on my second center, mains, and surrounds, and on my third sub and that popping sound has always been a consistent facter. But always after an amount of time the popping went away. The ear does not hear popping and then after 20 hours just accepts it. No way. The popping dissappears, the ear does not adjust. The bass and mid bass become fuller and warmer once the initial popping is over with. I can only assume that the cone and surround have loosened up. Now the tweeter. While I have tremendous hearing at age 33 (hearing test every year prove it) I for the life of me have never been able to hear a difference of a brand new tweeter and one that has 20-40 hours on it. If a tweeter changes (less bright) over time, then I am none the wiser.

You may say not true, can you demonstrate it under bias controlled conditions? Can you demonstrate measurable differences in FR that is above JND thresholds?

http://www.pcavtech.com/abx/abx_crit.htm

Your hearing for small differences at low frequencies is terrible. One reason why 10% distortion is used to rate subs.
 

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