Bowers & Wilkins N803 and Marantz receiver SR8012 sound cutting out

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Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
NEED HELP I have a New (year old) Marantz SR8012 which is no wimp power wise. It can perform at my listening levels just fine.
Problem is my N803 B&W speakers I just received seem to be making it cut out? Could this be a crossover issue in the speaker? PS the tweeters also do not work. I am replacing the tweeters but I am thinking the High Frequency crossover may be what is damaged and causing receiver to go into protection mode? I am going to test the tweeters but I think the crossover is the issue or a capacitor because blown tweeters wouldn't cause a receiver to cut out?

The speakers are great just need to see why tweeters wont play crossover or blow. Does the crossover sound like the issue due to the drop out in sound. Receiver works fine with all other speakers FYI.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Sounds like your speakers have the issues, I'd fix those rather than worry about the avr at this point, or why faulty speakers might trigger protection. I'd return the speakers.
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
tested with another working tweeter connected to the N803 tweeter and no sound crossover or capacitor is probably the cause. Taking it to an authorized dealer for diagnostic and repair. Crossovers are a couple hundred for (2), plus labor $200 for both speakers to check in and diagnostics which goes to the final labor charge.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
NEED HELP I have a New (year old) Marantz SR8012 which is no wimp power wise. It can perform at my listening levels just fine.
Problem is my N803 B&W speakers I just received seem to be making it cut out? Could this be a crossover issue in the speaker? PS the tweeters also do not work. I am replacing the tweeters but I am thinking the High Frequency crossover may be what is damaged and causing receiver to go into protection mode? I am going to test the tweeters but I think the crossover is the issue or a capacitor because blown tweeters wouldn't cause a receiver to cut out?

The speakers are great just need to see why tweeters wont play crossover or blow. Does the crossover sound like the issue due to the drop out in sound. Receiver works fine with all other speakers FYI.
Those B & W speakers are not intended to be driven from receivers. They have a minimum impedance of 3 ohms. So the rule of thumb is that the impedance will generally be minimum impedance plus 10%, which would make your speakers 3.3 ohms.

I don't know why, but B & W outclass themselves in designing and building speakers that present difficult and complex loads, especially in their upper end offerings.
Their spec, of 8 ohm nominal means absolutely nothing and is deceptive.

Thos speakers will need a substantial separate power amp, or your receiver will soon be deceased and bereft of life.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
NEED HELP I have a New (year old) Marantz SR8012 which is no wimp power wise. It can perform at my listening levels just fine.
Problem is my N803 B&W speakers I just received seem to be making it cut out? Could this be a crossover issue in the speaker? PS the tweeters also do not work. I am replacing the tweeters but I am thinking the High Frequency crossover may be what is damaged and causing receiver to go into protection mode? I am going to test the tweeters but I think the crossover is the issue or a capacitor because blown tweeters wouldn't cause a receiver to cut out?

The speakers are great just need to see why tweeters wont play crossover or blow. Does the crossover sound like the issue due to the drop out in sound. Receiver works fine with all other speakers FYI.
A lot of Bowers & Wilkins speakers are badly designed with impedances digging below 3 ohms at low frequencies with added phase angle curves that demand amplifiers which have a solid power supply. It is very likely that it is the case with the N803's. IMO, your AVR is not designed to drive such low impedance loads and I suspect that even if the problem was solved with the tweeters, you would still have the same protection mode occurrence.

I suggest that, should you still want to use those speakers, you try a capable external amplifier for your two front channels, which can drive a 2 ohm load such as a pro audio amplifier (brands such as Crown, QSC).
 
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S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
thanks all that is the plan. The speakers arrived yesterday and just wanted to test them ASAP and the tweeter is not producing sound. Once they are repaired they will not be running off the receiver. I'm looking at a 2-channel for just stereo. The HTM1 center has been running off the receiver for a while with no problems, but that is (3) drivers and a tweeter not a total of (6) drivers and (2) tweeters on the N803s. The 704 S1 and HTM7 ran just fine off the receiver, but these are MUCH more demanding. Thanks for the input!
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
How many drivers doesn't matter, the load presented to the amp is what matters. Where you'll see this play out is usually when you fry tweeters as they are the most sensitive drivers.
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
How many drivers doesn't matter, the load presented to the amp is what matters. Where you'll see this play out is usually when you fry tweeters as they are the most sensitive drivers.
Rotel is pretty well recommended for Bowers and Wilkins a RMB-1555 is 120x5 all channels driven 8 ohms. With only 3 speakers tower N803 and HTM1 center is this a good match?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Rotel should be a very stable amp and 4 Ohm stable. I would say yes, it will work with your gear just fine.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I think @PENG and I have talked about one of the Denon X3000 series AVR being tortured tested down to 1-ohm (around 165W into 1-ohm). So as far as impedance goes, I think the Marantz 8012 is probably okay.

As usually, it probably comes down to VOLUME vs Power Requirement.

But if you have a FAULTY speaker, even a 1,000W/1-ohm amp can't fix that. :D
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Rotel is pretty well recommended for Bowers and Wilkins a RMB-1555 is 120x5 all channels driven 8 ohms. With only 3 speakers tower N803 and HTM1 center is this a good match?
I'm afraid that the Rotel V is not a good match for your N-803s. On their website, Rotel clearly specify that the minimum impedance is 4 ohms for the RMB-1555, but your B & W speaker's impedance digs down to 3 ohms, at frequencies where most power is required from the amplifier's limited power supply:

IMO, you would need to get at least one 2 channel solid power amplifier for your front left and right channels. Affordable Crown and QSC pro audio amplifiers are able to handle the low impedance loads down to 2 ohms without a hitch.
 
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S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
I'm afraid that the Rotel V is not a good match for your N-803s. On their website, Rotel clearly specify that the minimum impedance is 4 ohms for the RMB-1555, but your B & W speaker's impedance digs down to 3 ohms, at frequencies where most power is required from the amplifier's limited power supply:
So even the 200x5 RMB-1585 is not sufficient?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
So even the 200x5 RMB-1585 is not sufficient?
In my opinion, it is not sufficient. It might even go into protection mode just like your SR8012 if driven to a certain SPL. When a serious manufacturer such as Rotel clearly specifies a minimum impedance, I think it should be taken seriously.

You would need to get at least one 2 channel solid power amplifier for your front left and right channels. Affordable Crown and QSC pro audio amplifiers are able to handle the low impedance loads down to 2 ohms without a hitch. Some pro audio shops rent amps to musicians so you could rent one for a week or so and see for yourself the difference with capable amplification.
 
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Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
even a monster RB-1590 is only 4 ohm minimum that too isn't sufficient?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
even a monster RB-1590 is only 4 ohm minimum that too isn't sufficient?
If the manufacturer specifies a minimum, there's a good reason for it. The product is not designed to drive speakers with lower impedances. It is always preferable to look for a product which is specifically designed for the load to handle, for a reliable and durable performance for both the amplifier and the speaker.
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
Anthem MCA 325 is 2 ohm stable 3 channel. May be the ticket?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think the Rotel would go into protection like the Marantz. I've owned a 8 series Marantz with 4 ohm speakers and it wasn't sufficient to drive five 4 Ohm speakers at high SPLs. That's a factor here, if the desired SPL level is high, then the Rotel might not be happy either, but it should be more stout than the Marantz. I would shoot for something with more power though. Also, how big is the room and how far do you sit?
 
S

Soundsystem311

Audioholic Intern
I would drive towers and center off an external amp, surrounds off Marantz. Problem might be with the surrounds is they are a minimum of 3.3 ohms? Room is 20x20.

Thanks for all the replies.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Anthem MCA 325 is 2 ohm stable 3 channel. May be the ticket?
Yes, that Anthem product would definitely be able to drive your 3 front channels without any trouble. If you want to go for the looks of the external amp, that would be a good solution. But if you wish to save money, a good less appealing pro audio amp could also do the job.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
I would drive towers and center off an external amp, surrounds off Marantz. Problem might be with the surrounds is they are a minimum of 3.3 ohms? Room is 20x20.

Thanks for all the replies.
Even if the surround speakers have an impedance going down to 3.3 ohms, that shouldn't cause any problem because most of the amplification power required in a home theater system is for the 3 front channels. Surround and Atmos speakers don't receive much power, a few watts most of the time, in practical situations. The SR8012 should be adequate for driving them. However, the situation would be different if you decided to use the All Channel Stereo feature.
 
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