Boston giving me bad info?

[darien87]

Hey folks,

Currently, I am running Boston Acoustics VR 2's as my fronts with a Cambridge Soundworks MC500 as my center channel. I was thinking that it might be better to go with a Boston center speaker to have all my fronts match. So I called up Boston and asked them what they recommended for me to use as a center and they told me the VRC.

I noticed that the frequency response of the VRC is 70hz - 20,000hz. However, I have my system crossed over at 60hz, due to the fact that my VR 2's play well down to 35hz or so. When I asked him about this discrepancy between my crossover point and the VRC's response, he told me to set my VR 2's to large and set my crossover at 80hz. Isn't this a bad thing?

Let the flaming begin.

 

[Hydra]

Hey folks,

Currently, I am running Boston Acoustics VR 2's as my fronts with a Cambridge Soundworks MC500 as my center channel. I was thinking that it might be better to go with a Boston center speaker to have all my fronts match. So I called up Boston and asked them what they recommended for me to use as a center and they told me the VRC.

I noticed that the frequency response of the VRC is 70hz - 20,000hz. However, I have my system crossed over at 60hz, due to the fact that my VR 2's play well down to 35hz or so. When I asked him about this discrepancy between my crossover point and the VRC's response, he told me to set my VR 2's to large and set my crossover at 80hz. Isn't this a bad thing?

Let the flaming begin.

I have mine set at 80 but using a sub. My VR-3's play low as well but why have the mains doing more heavy lifting on the low end and stress your receiver further?

The VRC is not going to keep up with a large full range speaker on the low end but will be timbre matched with the tweeter. If you want a perfect match you will have to add the 3rd vr-2 as the center, no?

 

[markw]

The only time you need to run a speaker as "small" is if running full range will hurt the sound. this is good for mini spweakwers or some bass shy bookshelves that fart out below 100 hz or so.

Those VR2's play low enough to be run as large. Boston obviously believe (and I agree) that anything below that will simply drop off and not "hurt" the sound.

The benefit of this is that you'll get the use of the full range of your speakers. The sub will simply augmment where these fall off.

FWIW, I ues Athena AS-F1's*, which are rated to 40hz (I bbelieve) as mains and have them set to large. Since I do a lot of two channel listening, it's the same as running two full range speakers without depending on the sub too much.

Actually, it IS running two full range speakers. Doh!

*and my surrounds are Athena AS-B2's as surrounds, also running as "large"

 

[j_garcia]

There are very few speakers that I would actually run as large, especially if you have a decent sub (in a HT setup, music is a different story). A properly dialed in system should run fine when properly blended with the sub regardless of tower or bookshelf speakers - meaning the x-over has to be chosen appropriately for the application.

 

[sholling]

I really don't know if you'd be missing much from the center or not. My gut tells me yes but I don't have the numbers to back it up and so will defer to those that have run tests. I've run a sub since my first center purchase so it's never been an issue for me.

On to your choices. I replaced a VR910 (the predecessor to the VRC) with the discontinued VR10 3-way center right after I bought my VR3s and like it a whole lot better. However if I were not going to be running a sub I'd look for a one of the long discontinued but much sought after VR12 or VR912 (assuming you have room) centers. You can pick up either on ebay for around $300. I my opinion these are far better choices than the VRC.

 

[darien87]

I really don't know if you'd be missing much from the center or not. My gut tells me yes but I don't have the numbers to back it up and so will defer to those that have run tests. I've run a sub since my first center purchase so it's never been an issue for me.

On to your choices. I replaced a VR910 (the predecessor to the VRC) with the discontinued VR10 3-way center right after I bought my VR3s and like it a whole lot better. However if I were not going to be running a sub I'd look for a one of the long discontinued but much sought after VR12 or VR912 (assuming you have room) centers. You can pick up either on ebay for around $300. I my opinion these are far better choices than the VRC.

Thanks for the info. It's not that I'm afraid of "missing" much from my CSW center. It's more of a desire to match my fronts to my center. Plus, I swear I hear the CSW distorting sometimes during loud explosions of movies. I think it might be due to the fact that the 60hz crossover point might be a bit too low for the CSW. Further adding to the problem is that my VRX's are only rated down to 80hz.

 

[sholling]

Thanks for the info. It's not that I'm afraid of "missing" much from my CSW center. It's more of a desire to match my fronts to my center. Plus, I swear I hear the CSW distorting sometimes during loud explosions of movies. I think it might be due to the fact that the 60hz crossover point might be a bit too low for the CSW. Further adding to the problem is that my VRX's are only rated down to 80hz.

Boston is going to try to sell you their current model center. That's the CSR's job.

I run my VR3s as 'small' and crossover to the Plus/2 at 80hz. Yes I could go a lot lower with the VR3s but why? Especially for home theater or DVD-A and SACDs.

 

[darien87]

Boston is going to try to sell you their current model center. That's the CSR's job.

I run my VR3s as 'small' and crossover to the Plus/2 at 80hz. Yes I could go a lot lower with the VR3s but why? Especially for home theater or DVD-A and SACDs.

Thanks again Sholling. There are a couple of VR12's on eBay. Both look like they'll hit around the $300 mark. I guess the VR12 has a certain amount of collectability.

There is also 1 VR10 that hasn't gotten any bids yet. I currently run 2 subs with my system. So if I'm reading your recommendation right, you're saying to go with the VR10? It looks like the VR10 has one 5.25" woofer, a 5.25" passive radiator, a 3.5" mid and a 1" tweeter. The CSW center I am currently using has two 6" woofers, one 4" mid and a 1" tweeter. I would think that the Boston wouldn't put out as much output as the CSW, (not that SPL is a concern for me).

I'm just wondering if the VR10 is really going to be that much of a difference from the CSW MC500? But I'm definitely going to try switching my crossover to 80hz tonight and see how that works for me.

 

[cfrizz]

You might also want to look for the VR920. I have this for my center & it is a beast!!!

BA VR920

Frequency Response 55-20,000Hz
Amplification Recommendation 15-250wpc
Bass Unit dual 5 1/4 x 7 1/2"
Mid Range 3 1/2"
Tweeter 1"
Dimensions 6 3/4 x 27 1/8 x 10 1/4"
weight 32lbs

 

[sholling]

You might also want to look for the VR920. I have this for my center & it is a beast!!!

You caught my typo. When I said 912 I meant VR920. Yes it's a beast.

 

[sholling]

I'm just wondering if the VR10 is really going to be that much of a difference from the CSW MC500? But I'm definitely going to try switching my crossover to 80hz tonight and see how that works for me.

Just to be clear. I've never heard the CSW and have only listened to VR2s in the store so I'm not qualified to tell you if a VR10 will sound better or not with your VR2s.

What I heard you saying was that you wanted a closer sonic match between your mains and your center and that Boston's CSRs were suggesting the VRC. What I can tell you is that I've lived with a VR910 (the predecessor to the VRC), first with my old VR950s and later with my VR3s and while it mated well with the former it didn't impress me as much with the later. It could just be my ear and you may feel differently. Anyway, I think I paid $150 for mint condition on ebay, but you should be aware that the VR10 is not very well shielded magneticlly. A non-issue unlees you are setting it on a CRT.

I really like the combination of VR3 mains and the VR10 center. I'd call the VR12 and the magneticlly shielded VR920 sweet overkill if you are crossing over to the sub at 80hz.

 

[cfrizz]

When I went to get a sub & center channel I was originally going to go with the VR910 & a smaller sub. I was smart enough to bring the specs of my Polk mains & the size of my tv.

The salesman said because of those, I would be better served going up to the VR920 & the bigger sub. The smaller sub would have simply duplicated what I was already getting from my Polks! So I went up a notch & have been very happy.

So I don't think you will be disappointed or overkilling anything going with a bigger center.

 

[darien87]

I think I paid $150 for mint condition on ebay, but you should be aware that the VR10 is not very well shielded magneticlly. A non-issue unlees you are setting it on a CRT.

I really like the combination of VR3 mains and the VR10 center. I'd call the VR12 and the magneticlly shielded VR920 sweet overkill if you are crossing over to the sub at 80hz.

Bummer. I was pretty much set on finding a VR10, but I will indeed be setting directly on top of my TV. My TV is a RP CRT unit. I haven't had a problem with the other 2 centers I've used.

But I did switch my crossover to 80hz last night and didn't really hear a difference, so I left it at 80hz. I watched Smokin' Aces last night and didn't hear the CSW distort. The problem is, I'm not really sure how to tell if my CSW center is a good match for my VR 2's or not. Does anyone make a disc or a track that helps you check for timbre matching?

 

[sholling]

The VR10 is fine on a RP CRT. Just don't try to use one on a plain old fashioned picture tube TV. I made that mistake with my old 34" direct view and it was not a good idea. Anyway I have my VR10 sitting on my 47" PR CRT so go for it if the bug bites.

I'll leave part two to the more technical on the board. I just go by what sounds right to me.

 

[darien87]

The VR10 is fine on a RP CRT. Just don't try to use one on a plain old fashioned picture tube TV. I made that mistake with my old 34" direct view and it was not a good idea. Anyway I have my VR10 sitting on my 47" PR CRT so go for it if the bug bites.

Cool. Thanks again Sholling.