Bodybuilding Thread from Yamaha Z9 Discussion

[gene]

I redirected the bodbuilding stuff here so that the Z9 thread will stay on topic.

 

[O'Shag]

Sorry about that Gene. Didn't mean to get people off track. I understand your opinion on Mike's principals, although from what you describe it sounds similar, namely to work up the heart rate, and condense the training period -work to failure, exerting close to maximum effort in supersets. I like Dr. Fred Hatfield's (Dr. Squat) approach also. His book Bodybuilding A Scientific Approach has also been a useful guide for me.

Up until his death Mike was training most of the contemporary champions, who came from all over the world just to train with him (including Dorian Yates). Mike was one for defying convention, and summarily pissed off the establishment, namely Joe Weider. So many people got a mistaken impression of him. A few days before a major competition he'd walk into the gym eating a large ice cream cone, when other competitors were on a specialized dieting regimen to lose the last vestiges of bodyfat. That must have put some serious mental pressure on the other competitors. Although he did well and did leave a legacy, I think his career was somewhat compromised because he wouldn't bow to the man who has almost since its inception controlled the bodybuilding world - Joe Weider.

Cheers

O'Shag

 

[Physique]

Wow,

Seems like this thread turned into a weight training discussion; my area of expertise.

Regarding Mike Mentzer, I don't agree with most of his premises, especially the ones that he developed in the mid 90s, years after his involvement in competitive bodybuilding. I do give him credit however for being one of the first bodybuilders, if not the first, to bring forward the fact that there is no need to live in the gym in order to get in shape.

Mike's premise was "if one set is performed until absolute failure {using enough weight to do between 6-10 reps to get to failure} you are forcing more muscle growth than by doing 3 sets not performed to failure." Mike then went on to say that this was "the only valid training system", just like "there is only one valid way to bring a man from Earth to the Moon" and just like "there is only one way to solve a math equation". Needless to say, Mike's logic is flawed as there is more than one way to solve the problems of routine design, taking a man to the moon and solving an equation.

Most of Mike's ideas originated by Arthur Jones (creator of the Nautilus machines) and Mike later popularized them. While during the period of Mike's competitive bodybuilding he did 2 or 3 sets per exercise (I have the old magazines where he presents his routines), by the mid 90s he somehow concluded that all is required to achieve growth is 1 set of 1 exercise per body part. Typically he recommended each body part to be trained only once a week as well with a split like Mon: Ches/Back, Wed: Legs, Fri: Delts/Arms.

Here is the problem with that philosophy: Studies show that 1 set is not nearly enough to recruit the entire motor unit pool of Type I, Type IIA, and Type IIB fibers (check out my article on muscle fiber types: http://www.hrfit.net/articles01/Article45.shtml ). To say otherwise (as these authors claim) is not only physiologically impossible but also defies all laws of neurophisiology. There are only two times when the 1 set to failure system works:

1-When you are an absolute beginner as the stress is absolutely new to the body.

2-If you are a bodybuilder that is grossly overtrained by doing 2 hour sessions six days a week. In this case, muscle growth is being prevented by chronic fatigue so once the bodybuilder reduces training volume then muscles begin to grow. This will only happen for about 2-3 weeks which is the average time that it takes the body to get used to a routine. After this ALL GAINS WILL STOP. Therefore, stick to multiple sets per exercise and vary the volume and intensity of the workouts for continued gains.

While I have several best-sellers on the subject (namely The Body Sculpting Bible for Men, The Body Sculpting Bible for Women, and the Hardgainer's Handbook of Bodybuilding-soon to be available), Gene and I are almost done putting together an e-book that will be available through Audioholics.com detailing a system we designed during our days in engineering when our time schedule was short and we did not have time to do more than five 40-minute workouts per week. The name of the e-book is the Executive Workout and I feel that anyone that implements its principles will improve greatly. If your goal is to lose body fat while gaining muscle or just toning, keep in mind that bodybuilders are the best and most successful dieters in the world.

Regarding Gene's capabilities in the gym, for those of you that just know how as the "The Man from Audioholics", I'll just say this. Most people cannot do the distance with me in a workout. Because of that I train most of the time alone. When I met Gene back in college he was one of the many who requested to be able to be my training partner. I agreed and like all others, 20 minutes later he is lying nauseous on the gym floor. What Gene had, that no one else did, was determination because 3 days later, much to my surprise, the man calls me asking to work out again. I was so impressed that even though I had killed my legs in the morning I told him that I had not worked out so he was more than welcome to come by my gym to train legs. He survived that session and from there on he became the best and strongest training partner I've ever had.

Best of Health,
Hugo A. Rivera
President
HR Fitness Inc.
http://www.hrfit.net

 

[zipper]

Interesting to find this thread on this forum. Most people don't understand how complicated body building is. I chuckle when friends ask me for some advice on workout regimens & follow my response by saying "But I don't want to get too huge & bulked up". I simply tell them not to worry about it,that unless they're one of the rare exceptions,that won't happen. When I started lifting some years back(I don't call myself a BB.I'm not that dedicated.), I was fortunate enough to stumble on a couple of books by Robert Kennedy,which has a lot of info from various past champs. Good story about the Mentzer/Arnie feud. I've had some success varying routines from a lot of the pros,including Mentzers'.

Always like to read from Tom Platz on leg days when I'm feeling less than enthusiastic.

 

[Unregistered]

sorry about going off topic

im sorry if i went of topic, but i couldn't resist. what do you mean 375 is nothing. thats freaking huge. i maybe only be sixteen,but i have been going at it hard for about a year now, got an award in school for top weight lifter in my grade an i can only bench 115 for my sets of 10 (3 sets of ten). i always found bench to be harder then other exercises, but starting on dunbells and working your way up those helps balance your arms for using bars. its weird finding what exercises you are good at and which ones you suck at. my back was always week, but it was due to a sway and twist in my spine. now that its been corrected i can do a little more. my tricepts are my strongest point. i can go 130 for my push downs, and ican only curl 30's. so thats my weightlefting career.

 

[mike_p]

I've been a huge proponent of going to failure with "big" lifts.. bench, squat, pull-ups, dips, rows, etc.. no time-wasting isolation lifts (curls, tricep pushdowns, crap like that). I get in the gym once a week for upper body and I'm done in 1 to 1.5 hours, I don't do any lower body due to my cycling training schedule.. but the once a week upper body dealio keeps me looking like a sligtly above avg person. Otherwise the large amounts cardio with minimal upper body stress turns me into a girlie man with mega thighs... if I was more serious about winning races, I wouldn't lift at all, but that's another topic.

Anyway, my point being, that if I wanted to put some serious size on, I'd break my lifting schedule into a 3 days/week schedule focusing on large lifts going to complete failure in 2 sets per left /w minimal weight warm-up set and 1 set going to 75% failure as additional warmup. Regarding cardio, 2 days.. could be more, could be less.. depends on your ability to gain muscle mass and how fast you wanna strip off the fat.

Wanna lose fat, don't do cardio at or above lactate threshold (ie high intensity, when the legs start to burn).. take it easy (10% below that legs starting to burn, gasping for air point), and do at least 40 to 60 minutes per session. Get a road bike, get the bike shop to perfectly fit you on the bike and ride it, one of the best low impact workouts you can do for very lengthy time periods... remember you wanna get your body to burn fat as energy (that why you're keeping the intenisty controlled), otherwise you're using glycogen stored in your muscles, which is what is being used during high-intensity muscle stress, ie lifting. BUT, along with your cardio you need to build muscle mass, esp the large groups, upper legs (quads, very important), back, chest.. more muscle mass the more calories your body burns at rest.

As I get older, and hopefully wiser, my focus has been cardio fitness with enough weight training to keep a well balanced yet lean physique. Hence 1 day of weights, and loads of cardio, then again I race bikes.. 157lbs, 5'11", ~8-9% BF, but can bench 160lbs to failure for 8 reps.. good enough for me.

ugh.. a little long winded, back to my tunes...
mike

 

[Unregistered]

good plan

mike, youve got a good plan going, got neglect it, trust me it will pay off in hte end. when i started i weight 185 and was 5,8. now i weight 235 and i am 5,8. this is over a span of a year, mind you my body fat its 15% not proud, but i am solid not squishy. if theres anything i learned to bulk up a bit is to use protien, ie whey and such products, they don't shink your balls but htey do provide fast results. i jsut you caould say im an example, considering my body fat stayed at 15% from the 50 pound weight gain.

cheers: sheep

 

[Unregistered]

typos

i meant do not neglect it*

 

[zipper]

50 lbs in a year on a 5'8 frame? Good gawd,you are blessed my friend. I agree that EVERYONE can benefit from added protein,whether you're a biker,runner,lifter,etc.

 

[mike_p]

mike, youve got a good plan going, got neglect it, trust me it will pay off in hte end. when i started i weight 185 and was 5,8. now i weight 235 and i am 5,8. this is over a span of a year, mind you my body fat its 15% not proud, but i am solid not squishy. if theres anything i learned to bulk up a bit is to use protien, ie whey and such products, they don't shink your balls but htey do provide fast results. i jsut you caould say im an example, considering my body fat stayed at 15% from the 50 pound weight gain.

cheers: sheep

Ya, that some crazy mass building.. the heaviest I ever been in my life is 185 and that was when I only lifted. That no longer a priority, hence my low body weight.. less weight I gotta slog up a hill the faster I get to the top. Every 1lbs you take off equal ~1% speed gain on the bike, going uphill.

Totally agree that protein is key.. but you need the carbs to replensish the depleted glycogen stores, sports drink immediately after workout is also key.

mike

 

[Unregistered]

blessed, or swedish

yes i have gotten that response before, but i have always said the same thing, i am swedish. for some reason it isn't very hard to me to bulk up. and i agree abou the carbohydrates. without then you would be a lifeless blob of muscle with no energy. i almost try to eat balanced means for breakfast lunch an dinner. its hard when your 16 and your friends want to go to macdonalds, i found a simple way to combat this, keep no money on yourself. you can't buy anything.

i have a question for you guys to answer since you know alot more then i do. what is hte best method for getting rid of "love handles" and toneing up you waste line? i have to top abs but it goes funhouse mirror on you when you look athte belt buckle.
thnks, muchly appreciated

sheep

 

[Unregistered]

help

bah, Don't any of you know a work out that will eliminate my love handles. i am having ot upgrade my clothing twice a year and i can't re-use old stuff cause its just to tight.

any help would be great.
sheep.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

I was thinking of posting a pic of my awesome six-packs...

...but they're still under the "protective padding".

 

[gene]

My advice on love handles (which I need to actually practice rather than just preach) is to lower Pizza intake One of the driving forces behind why I engage in weightlifting is so I can still eat Pizza

Seriously though, a regular exercise program with weight training is essential for reducing body fat since it increases your metabolism, replaces fat with more lean body mass. Muscle requires more calories to maintain that fat, thus you burn calories more efficiently.

Diets such as Atkins, IMO, are not the way to go long term and can do more harm than good. Hugo is working on an article on this which I will gladly post in our Hobby Corner when its ready.

 

[zipper]

One thing I've read & found to be true is that there is no such thing as "spot reducing".Your body stores fat all over,more in some places than others.When you start cutting you will lose fat from all areas of the body.Because of that the places that have stored the most will be the last to go,so to speak.Your "handles" will shrink as you cut but will kind of remain proportional to the rest of your body.

It's easier to stay low fat than to get low fat.

 

[Unregistered]

stupid handles

sheep here,
yes, I have started working again at the semi trailor shop, so this should help out more to get rid of my body fat. The weirdest thing happened today, one guy siad I put on weight from my weight lifting, and I told him I weighed 235 pounds and they flipped becasue im 17 and i am only 5'8". All of a suddon, I am the second heaviest person at my work, and these are like big guys because semi's aren't light ;p.

just a story that happened today. Its also my bday, wooooottt.....zorzs

 

[Unregistered]

Ps

PS - thanks for all the help, and once i have my 6 pack, i will post pictures( if you want).

one more thing, muscle burns fat and we all can agree on that, you said you can't choose where you burn fat, but if you work out the abs and will loose fat there, it worked for my top abs(they show), but the rest goes fun house mirror on you.

sheep