Blu-ray with 7.1 analog out and Denon 3805

[cutter]

I'm itchin' to jump into the blu-ray tech, but I really don't want to upgrade my Denon 3805 receiver yet. I'm thinking of a blu-ray with 7.1 analog outs, with the player doing the processing for TruHD, etc. I know there are a couple of players with analog outs coming out in the fall. I'm not willing to drop 2 grand for the Denon blu-ray with analog outs.

Anyway, does anyone have an opinion on this? Or should I just suck it up and buy a PS3 and a new receiver with HDMI? It seems counterintuitive to me to have to buy a blu-ray player that does TruHD sound processing, only to have to turn around and buy a receiver that does the same thing.

Am I completely wrong on this?

 

[allargon]

Considering the Denon doesn't even do DD+ and DTS-HD HR, I would wait. There is a Pioneer player coming out that many are excited about. The Panny DMP-BD50 decodes all formats but it only has 5.1 analog out. The Samsung BD-UP5000 also has 7.1 analog outs but it does not internally decode DTS-HD MA or DTS-HD HR. Samsung and Sony are both coming out with complete 2.0 players in the fall that will internally decode all next generation audio formats and output them over 7.1 analog outs.

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2 Blu-ray Players.html

(I need to have him update his info on the combo players. However, it's mostly accurate.)

 

[AVTguy]

If the Denon 3800 is out of the question, then your best bets are either going to be the upcoming Pioneer Elite unit with 7.1 multi-channel output, or the upcoming Sony PDB-s550 which will also include this feature. You will get all the necessary internal decoding for every music format currently available on Blu-ray or DVD, and both units start under $1K (well the Pioneer is $999.95).

FWIW, none of the current Pioneer or Sony Blu-Ray machines boot up very quickly, which is honestly the most annoying thing ever (at least for me). I've stop watched the Sony BDP-S300 at around 45 seconds, with similar times for the Pioneer Elite 95 unit. On the flipside, the Denon Blu-Ray Transport (DVD-2500BTCI) boots up in a mere 18 seconds. While this is still signicantly slower than almost every DVD player on the market, it was a vast improvement over the Pioneer and Sony units. Additionally the Toshiba HD-A3 unit, the final iteration of HD-DVD, takes around 30 seconds to boot up, which I think is definitely an improvement from the 2nd gen. Blu-Ray units, but still not acceptable for a high end HT device.

Now, I do understand that the Denon 2500 is not really an option for you due to it's HDMI exclusive output, but I thought I'd mention it just as a reference point for you. Unfortunately I do not my own personal boot up time trial results for the full fledged Denon 3800 player.

The new Sony unit promises better boot up times, but how much better is still unknown. I do not know what the new pioneer units claim.

 

[davidtwotrees]

My tv is hdmi 1.3 capable. I have a Lexicon processor that was recently upgraded to 7.1 analog outs but was built in 1998 so will no way be able to process the new blu ray audio formats. Can I buy a blu ray player with analogs and get the full blu ray experience? Also, my rig is currently 5.1 and I really don't feel like going to the trouble or expense of 7.1........can I buy a blu ray with 5.1 analog outs and get the full blu ray audio experience?

 

[allargon]

My tv is hdmi 1.3 capable. I have a Lexicon processor that was recently upgraded to 7.1 analog outs but was built in 1998 so will no way be able to process the new blu ray audio formats. Can I buy a blu ray player with analogs and get the full blu ray experience? Also, my rig is currently 5.1 and I really don't feel like going to the trouble or expense of 7.1........can I buy a blu ray with 5.1 analog outs and get the full blu ray audio experience?

Most Blu-Ray movies are 5.1 anyway. Are you matrixing 5.1 into 7.1? If you just want 5.1, then the Panasonic DMP-BD50 is just about perfect for you. It's currently the fastest loading standalones. It internally decodes all audio formats. The only caveat is that many reviewers say its upscaling performance isn't the best. However, that seems like your player.

 

[billy p]

I'm itchin' to jump into the blu-ray tech, but I really don't want to upgrade my Denon 3805 receiver yet.* I'm thinking of a blu-ray with 7.1 analog outs, with the player doing the processing for TruHD, etc.* I know there are a couple of players with analog outs coming out in the fall.* I'm not willing to drop 2 grand for the Denon blu-ray with analog outs.* Anyway, does anyone have an opinion on this?* Or should I just suck it up and buy a PS3 and a new receiver with HDMI?* It seems counterintuitive to me to have to buy a blu-ray player that does TruHD sound processing, only to have to turn around and buy a receiver that does the same thing.* Am I completely wrong on this?

I'm in the exact same boat. I thought about replacing my receiver buy at what cost? Buying a BR player with all the features you need would certainly cost less than any equivalent receiver(ie: denon 3808 or better). Heh.. heck we've waited this far, whats a few more weeks.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Geno]

I bought the Panny BD-10 when they were closed out. It decodes and sends 7.1 analog to my 4306 and sounds simply spectacular. There aren't a lot of 7.1 movies out there yet, so 5.1 would be quite sufficient for most people.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I bought the Panny BD-10 when they were closed out. It decodes and sends 7.1 analog to my 4306 and sounds simply spectacular. There aren't a lot of 7.1 movies out there yet, so 5.1 would be quite sufficient for most people.

I had the BD10 once. It does DVD-A, DD, DTS, TrueHD, DTS-HD HR, but it does not do DTS-HD MA.

I think the Denon 3805 is a great receiver with plenty of clean power. I say just wait for the new Sony 550.

If you were getting a new Denon receiver, it would have to be at least the 3808. Otherwise, it would be a downgrade IMO. So the most economical thing to do is get a BD player that has internal decoders for TrueHD & DTS-MA with 7.1 analog output.

 

[PhillyDan1969]

I am in the same boat here!!! I own a Denon AVR-3805 and I recently purchased the Samsung HL61A750 and while I have a small HD-DVD library and player, I want to add BLu-Ray as well.

I can't justify buying the PS3, to this day, so my choices seem very limited. I don't really need Profile 2.0, but the player definitely needs to internally decode all the HD audio formats and I would like at least 5.1 analog out, but at the same time I would love the player to cost under $500!!!

I guess I am probably waiting until christmas to see if the prices come down!!!

 

[PENG]

I can't justify buying the PS3, to this day, so my choices seem very limited. I don't really need Profile 2.0, but the player definitely needs to internally decode all the HD audio formats and I would like at least 5.1 analog out, but at the same time I would love the player to cost under $500!!!

I guess I am probably waiting until christmas to see if the prices come down!!!

I thought the $299 Samsung PD-P1400 has analog 5.1 out.

 

[PhillyDan1969]

While it does have 5.1 analog out, it doesn't decode DTS-HDMA and it is only Profile 1.0 and considered inferior to the PS3!!!

In fact just about stand-alone review I read fails to match the PS3 for Blu-Ray playback!!! I find this to be the most laughable thing about the state of Blu-Ray!!!

 

[cutter]

I am in the same boat here!!! I own a Denon AVR-3805 and I recently purchased the Samsung HL61A750 and while I have a small HD-DVD library and player, I want to add BLu-Ray as well.

How do you like your Samsung LED DLP? I'm about to buy a 67A750, but I'm torn between that and the Mitz. diamond 73835. What I really want is a pioneer kuro elite, but I have a bunch of windows opposite the TV, so I'm out of luck. Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but hey, I started it, so I guess it's OK??

 

[cutter]

more analog questions!

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I've been reading on the AVS forums about the Panny BD55 and Sony 550 BD-- apparently if you use the 7.1 analog outs to your receiver for the HD audio codecs, and the movie is 5.1, then you won't get anything from your rear surrounds. Would this still happen if you used a receiver that internally decodes the HD audio? Is this a big deal? I don't know-- my 3805 just meshes the rears into the mix when it's a 5.1 source. Now I just don't know if I should get a HDMI receiver instead of a BD player with analog outs. Advice?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I've been reading on the AVS forums about the Panny BD55 and Sony 550 BD-- apparently if you use the 7.1 analog outs to your receiver for the HD audio codecs, and the movie is 5.1, then you won't get anything from your rear surrounds. Would this still happen if you used a receiver that internally decodes the HD audio? Is this a big deal? I don't know-- my 3805 just meshes the rears into the mix when it's a 5.1 source. Now I just don't know if I should get a HDMI receiver instead of a BD player with analog outs. Advice?

Ask yourself this question. How significant are your surround channels compared to the front 3.1 channels? Not very!

The Center channel alone makes up > 50% of the movie soundtrack. And the front left, right, and subwoofer makes up a much, much bigger portion than the surround channels, even if you had 100 surround speakers back there.

Personally, I think it's a lot more fun to buy both a new AVR and BD player, so I would buy a new HDMI AVR w/ TrueHD/DTS-HD MA and a BD player w/ Bitstream for TrueHD/DTS-HD MA.

And this is coming from a guy who as a million analog cables behind the audio rack!

 

[jostenmeat]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I've been reading on the AVS forums about the Panny BD55 and Sony 550 BD-- apparently if you use the 7.1 analog outs to your receiver for the HD audio codecs, and the movie is 5.1, then you won't get anything from your rear surrounds. Would this still happen if you used a receiver that internally decodes the HD audio? Is this a big deal? I don't know-- my 3805 just meshes the rears into the mix when it's a 5.1 source. Now I just don't know if I should get a HDMI receiver instead of a BD player with analog outs. Advice?

Yep.

This was a nail in the coffin for me.

If you have a 7.1 setup, I'd recommend going with HDMI for sure. Or even optical.

I find that the benefits of 7.1 vs 5.1 are greater than the benefits of lossless vs lossy. JUST ME.

After all, the bitrates are still improved via SPDIF from BD, even just using the old school legacy tracks.

In fact . . . Hold off on upgrading receiver. Just use optical for now. Seriously. See what you think. The video improvements on their own will keep you occupied for a while. There's always stuff on the horizon, isn't there?

 

[cutter]

jury is still out

Thanks for all the savvy advice everyone-- Apparently there is a little bit of discrepancy over on AVS as to whether the BD55 will process the HD codec and then matrix it over analog to give sound to the rear surrounds. Some on AVS say yes, others, no. I'm trying to be patient, and I'd like to see what OPPO will have to offer... but my resolve to wait is withering... I want it all, and I want it NOW.

 

[jostenmeat]

Some on AVS say yes, others, no.

Very interesting. If so, it would be the first player to be capable of that AFAIK. I highly doubt it, but I like surprises!

 

[allargon]

If you have a 7.1 setup, I'd recommend going with HDMI for sure. Or even optical.

I find that the benefits of 7.1 vs 5.1 are greater than the benefits of lossless vs lossy. JUST ME.

After all, the bitrates are still improved via SPDIF from BD, even just using the old school legacy tracks.

In fact . . . Hold off on upgrading receiver. Just use optical for now. Seriously. See what you think. The video improvements on their own will keep you occupied for a while. There's always stuff on the horizon, isn't there?

Be careful recommending optical. There are some BD players out there (*cough* Sony BDP-S350) that won't recode PCM to DTS or DD over SPDIF. There are quite a few Blu-Ray discs out there with only PCM (no DTS, DD, DD+, etc.).

 

[jostenmeat]

Be careful recommending optical. There are some BD players out there (*cough* Sony BDP-S350) that won't recode PCM to DTS or DD over SPDIF. There are quite a few Blu-Ray discs out there with only PCM (no DTS, DD, DD+, etc.).

Good to know, thanks.

Can you name a few of the more popular titles that do not have any legacy tracks on them?

Which other BDP's suffer in the same way as the s350?

 

[Thunder18]

Very interesting. If so, it would be the first player to be capable of that AFAIK. I highly doubt it, but I like surprises!

I'd have to second that. That kind of post-processing that the receiver does easily with a bitstream input is done in the digital domain before the receiver performs digital to analog conversion. For example, the way Dolby pro-logic IIx can make a 5.1 input into 7.1 output.

On another note, i've had the Sony BDP-S550 since Thursday and just fedex'd it back today. As you can see in my signature, i'm still clinging to my old non-hdmi equipped receiver and was using my Panasonic blu-ray player via the 7.1 multi channel outputs and things were good. Hooked up the Sony and could never match the sound quality of the Panasonic. Didn't matter what I did. Bass was anemic no matter how I set the speakers in the Sony's menu. Anyway, I might try the new Panasonic at some point since I'm still very happy with my current one.