Blu-ray, whats the difference...

[fredk]

An inexpensive player, say less than $200, a midline player, and the Oppo, um, I mean, a premium player?

 

[adk highlander]

Hi Fred,

The differences for me are the following:

1) Multichannel analog 5.1/7.1 outs
2) Better Upscaling of standard DVD's
3) Ability to play more formats (DVD-A/SACD)
4) Addition of USB ports
5) Ethernet port and ability to download and update firmware
6) BD live support without having to use extra memory
7) NetFlix and other download options for streaming movies
8) Quicker load times

I'm sure there are more but going from the Samsung 1600 to the Oppo covered almost all of these that I care about.

What options do you care about?

 

[allargon]

#5 is available on the BD-P1600.

#7 is NOT available on the Oppo AFAIK but available on the BD-P1600.

#1 depends on your AVR/processor.

#2 and #3 IMHO are the best selling points.

#9 dependson the AVR/processor, but I would add onboard decoding of DTS HD HR/MA, DD+ and Dolby TrueHD.

In the case of the $100 Magnavox, you could add #10, better video quality with Blu-ray's at 1080p24.

 

[fredk]

Mostly what I am looking for is Blu-ray playback.

Scaling may not be much of an issue. I own all of 3 dvds (LOTR set) so will probably switch to mostly Blu-ray rentals with the player upgrade. My receiver is the Denon 2808 so I already have a reasonable scaler.

Don't care particularly about BD live or streaming.

I'm curious about SACD/DVD-A playback.

My original plan was to put a bd player in my HTPC for an all-in-one solution, but after 1.5 years of waiting I have decided that stand-alone players will hits $100 [in Canada] long before we get HD audio pass-through for the HTPC at a reasonable cost.

Now I am leaning toward an inexpensive player like the Magnavox. I can probably pick up another device inexpensively used to try out SACD.

The oppo looks like a really nice unit, but at a $400 premium to try out SACD does not seem quite worth it.

The concerns:
1. bd playback consistancy - not being able to play all discs.
2. playback of less than pristine discs

Both of these seem to be much less of an issue with the most recent releases from the tier one manufacturers from what I can tell, but I don't know about the Funai players (Magnavox, Insignia...).

 

[j_garcia]

The concerns:
1. bd playback consistancy - not being able to play all discs.

This is a potential issue with all players. I have seen some odd behavior with the BDP-983 and a few DVD-As (they play, but pause on track 6), but for the most part I haven't had any problems with any discs not playing.

2. playback of less than pristine discs

Both of these seem to be much less of an issue with the most recent releases from the tier one manufacturers from what I can tell, but I don't know about the Funai players (Magnavox, Insignia...).

I bought my dad a first generation Insignia and it hasn't had any problems playing any DVD or BD so far, though he doesn't watch nearly as many movies as I do. And that is without the latest firmware.

IMO, if you get a Magnavox and a Oppo 980 you've spent 80% of the price of just getting the BDP-83 and having not only a better player than the other two combined, you have it all in one box. I replaced 3 players with the Oppo (two technically, the A-35 doesn't count).

 

[mtrycrafts]

....Don't care particularly about BD live or streaming.
...
The concerns:
1. bd playback consistancy - not being able to play all discs.
2. playback of less than pristine discs
...).

One reason to have that BD live is to update any firmware that is out.

 

[BMXTRIX]

For standard BD playback, the standard manufacturers make some pretty good stuff. Blu-ray takes MUCH longer to load than DVD, but the players still work well and are far faster than the first generation models.

IMO, with the most patents in the technology, mostly on the hardware side, Panasonic has reaped the most rewards through player sales and has put out player after player which has been good to very good, with the BD60 from them being no exception.

I would buy that one and recommend it if you are just looking for playback and have a recent receiver as you do. Likewise, you don't have a huge DVD collection to support and you rent more than buy which means you will likely see far more BDs moving forward than DVDs. The Panny will do you fine at around $200 (USD).

I am not keen on the off-brand players as they all need regular firmware updates to remain ahead of the game and most major manufacturers (especially Panny) are good about taking care of this.

 

[fredk]

OK, so firmware updates are still a required thing to ensure continued playback compatability. Do these players have other means than bdlive for firmware updates? USB port perhaps??

I seem to remember that Magnavox has already released some firmware updates.

 

[PENG]

Mostly what I am looking for is Blu-ray playback.

Then the $200 Panasonic is a good option.

Scaling may not be much of an issue. I own all of 3 dvds (LOTR set) so will probably switch to mostly Blu-ray rentals with the player upgrade. My receiver is the Denon 2808 so I already have a reasonable scaler.

The Panasonic DMPBD60 would likely scale better, or if you can still get a Samsung BD-P2550 or 2500 then for sure it will scale better than the 2808.

I'm curious about SACD/DVD-A playback.

Be careful, that curiosity cost me a fortune on the Denon DVD3910, only to learn I can't afford keep buying SACD (cost prohibitive) and DVD-A are in limited supply, probably dying.

I have decided that stand-alone players will hits $100 [in Canada] long before we get HD audio pass-through for the HTPC at a reasonable cost.

That did happen to me when I found one brand new Sony BDP-BX1 at Walmart for C$99. The cashier couldn't believe it but then he realized it was a left over one from Sam's club. It was pure luck in this case but it may just hit that kind of low price eventually as some Walmart stores still have mountains of the same but different BDP-S350. I don't know how long you have to wait though.

I can probably pick up another device inexpensively used to try out SACD.

I suggest you try a used 3910 and avoid those cheap Samsung ones. Even the 3910 cannot beat some of my regular CDs. It really depends a lot on the recording itself.

The oppo looks like a really nice unit, but at a $400 premium to try out SACD does not seem quite worth it.

It is worth it only if you prefer to have just one player to do everything for you.

The concerns:
1. bd playback consistancy - not being able to play all discs.
2. playback of less than pristine discs

I am not sure about the Funai, Magnavox etc., but I have no issues at all with my cheap Sony and Samsung. From what I read, the Panasonic should only be better.

 

[Adam]

Do these players have other means than bdlive for firmware updates? USB port perhaps??

My Panasonic DMP-BD60 can also upgrade the firmware from a CD-R. I've upgraded it twice using that method, and it's been easy and flawless both times.

 

[fredk]

Thanks Adam. I'm so used to doing everything at work over a network or thumbdrive I didn't think of doing things the 'old fashioned' way.

Be careful, that curiosity cost me a fortune...

My venture into this hobby has already cost me half a fortune and I really hate doing things half @$$ed.

I don't know how long you have to wait though.

I'm cheap. I can wait. If I can find a player in the low hundreds, I will pick it up now. If I have to spend $200+ I will wait until the end of the year. I wasn't even thinking about blu-ray until my old receiver got fried a couple of weeks ago.

 

[fredk]

OK, so If I could sumarize the three categories it would be:

Low end
Pros
- inexpensive

Cons
- loading times may be long
- may not get firmware updates to fix read issues very often??
- scaling just OK **
- potential for not reading discs that are in poor condition

Mid-Line
Pros
- reasonable price
- good firmware support
- faster load times
- good scaling
- will read discs that are in poor condition (dependant on brand)

Cons
- not all in one

Upper End (Oppo bdp 83)
Pros (all of above plus)
- all in one player
- good to excellent scaling

Cons
- price

Does that about cover it?

 

[mtrycrafts]

OK, so firmware updates are still a required thing to ensure continued playback compatability. Do these players have other means than bdlive for firmware updates? USB port perhaps??

I seem to remember that Magnavox has already released some firmware updates.

As Adam indicated, you can make a CD off the maker's web site but then you have to do it in a manner that is compatible with the player, have the company send you the CDs as I have done for the HD DVD player or, just plug the player into the Internet and follow a few prompts as I do with the BD player now. 3 ways to update but firmware updates will be around from here on out, unlike the DVDs.

 

[jostenmeat]

Does that about cover it?

Yep. Like BMX says, the loads are still longer than what you're used to. Like he also said, Panny is particularly good with FW support. I empathized with others during the last couple of years, using players like the Sammy 1500, when so many discs didn't work, and they were pulling their hair out.

My Pana BD30 from three generations ago has played everything I've ever thrown at it, except for a big hitch at the end of Sunshine, when I was using the OOTB ancient FW 1.0 or whatever. I've only updated three times during the last two years. (But there have been many more available).

The other nice thing about Panny is the implementation of things you might assume would work normally. For instance, one person I know of elsewhere does prefer to just use his TV speakers sometimes, and he hates that he actually has to delve into the menu to select the output (he's got a Sony). The Pana's are fine. Another, though perhaps very rare event, and if you have HDMI, don't worry, but some BDs do not come with an accompanying mch lossy track. Well, the Sony 350 for example can't recode the mch PCM into lossy mch DD, but the Panny's could, ever since at least three generations ago. (Maybe Sony has updated that via FW, I dunno).

Just other bits of evidence that point towards Pana. If you use the search engine here, you can find the six bluray player shootout (now somewhat outdated), but even then the Pana was the ONLY player to pass all HQV tests. Other players included 350, PS3, a couple of Pioneers, and Sammy 1500.

Then consider that the BD60 is two generations better, and can be had at under $200 (but I think mebbe not up there in CA). At least for us yanks, we can have our cake and eat it, IMO. It ain't Oppo sexy, or Oppo universal, but for many like you, it's a proper choice of bdp.

 

[PENG]

Then consider that the BD60 is two generations better, and can be had at under $200 (but I think mebbe not up there in CA).

Unfortunately you think right. The best I can find here is C$349.99, C$=US$0.91 approx., when it is "on sale".

 

[j_garcia]

As Adam indicated, you can make a CD off the maker's web site but then you have to do it in a manner that is compatible with the player, have the company send you the CDs as I have done for the HD DVD player or, just plug the player into the Internet and follow a few prompts as I do with the BD player now. 3 ways to update but firmware updates will be around from here on out, unlike the DVDs.

The Oppos and a few other manufacturers also have USB. With the Oppo, you can place the downloaded firmware into the appropriate folder on the USB, choose update from the setup menu and off it goes. No waiting for them to send you a disc, no need to use a blank.

 

[fredk]

Unfortunately you think right. The best I can find here is C$349.99, C$=US$0.91 approx., when it is "on sale".

Quite sad. For a while, electronics were close to the same price up here. Computer hardware still seems to be that way.

Thanks for all your help gents. I will keep an eye on the pricing for the Pana 60.

 

[lsiberian]

An inexpensive player, say less than $200, a midline player, and the Oppo, um, I mean, a premium player?

I think you got it summarized.

I will describe the buyers IMO who follows these. Adjectives aren't universal.

$100 blu-ray player- desperate, emergency, foolish otherwise. You get what you pay for.

$200-400- early adopter, smart, patient, correct choice.

$400+- wealthy, brand loyal, big spender, unwise.

Technology constantly changes. 15 years ago the $1000 DVD players are worth nothing today. They quickly were outdated by new video outputs.

Spend like this will be used for 2-3 years not 8-10. As always speakers are king.

 

[Tiguron]

Futureshop has the BD60 on sale right now (ie today only - Aug 24th) for $299 CDN. Online and instore. Not a great price compared to the US, but good enough for me to grab one .

 

[indulger]

If playback is your only concern, I have read good things about the JVC XV BP1 Blu-Ray disc player. Again, just read, have not seen it in action. But never hurts to look it up and ask around.