Blowout help

[Stormcrow]

Hello all.

FNG here looking for some audio advice from those in the know.
I recently had a blowout, literally, with my subwoofer and am hoping someone can point me in the right direction for a speaker replacement. I’m fairly sure it was user-error that blew the speaker and think the amp and enclosure are still functional.

I had a co-worker help put this system together for me many years ago, he was a serious audiophile and my knowledge base is fairly limited. Unfortunately I’ve lost contact with him some time ago so I figured this sounded (hah) like a good place go for advice. Here’s what I currently have:

Receiver: Yamaha RXV2200

Speakers are all Paradigm:
Mains: Monitor 9 V.3
Rears: Mini Monitor V.2
Centers: CC-370 V.3
Sub: PW-2100 V.2

Is there a suitable drop-in speaker replacement for this sub I can purchase?
I mostly do Movies/TV and some music, say 80/20. The setting is in a large great-room/living room, with limited placement possibilities. Would like to keep the cost down if possible, thus asking for just a speaker replacement versus getting a whole new powered sub. If removing/replacing the speaker isn’t a good idea then I definitely welcome replacement suggestions, preferably $500 or less.

I’m not sure I know enough of to even ask the right questions, so any comments, criticisms, or questions you have would be appreciated. I just want to fill the void in my listening experience.

Thank you for your time.

P.S. Was going to attach a couple pics of the sub, but guess I don't have clearance yet.

 

[GranteedEV]

Is it even the driver that's damaged? It could be the amplifier. And it could very well be under warranty.. contact the company and see what they suggest.

A few of the issues that arise from drop-in replacements is that the box and port tuning may not work out. we don't know enough about the box to be sure. A TC Sounds Epic 10 is probably your "safest" best in that sense.

The other major concern is if paradigm implemented a servo in that subwoofer. If that's the case, you need to get their official replacement driver.

Honestly though, it sounds as good an excuse as any to upgrade to a new beastly sub like an Epik Legend

Just going with a rough ASSUMPTIONS of

1) reasonable high pass filter below the port tuning
2) No servo

The TC Sounds Epic 10 seems like a reasonably safe bet.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello all.

FNG here looking for some audio advice from those in the know.
I recently had a blowout, literally, with my subwoofer and am hoping someone can point me in the right direction for a speaker replacement. I’m fairly sure it was user-error that blew the speaker and think the amp and enclosure are still functional.

I had a co-worker help put this system together for me many years ago, he was a serious audiophile and my knowledge base is fairly limited. Unfortunately I’ve lost contact with him some time ago so I figured this sounded (hah) like a good place go for advice. Here’s what I currently have:

Receiver: Yamaha RXV2200

Speakers are all Paradigm:
Mains: Monitor 9 V.3
Rears: Mini Monitor V.2
Centers: CC-370 V.3
Sub: PW-2100 V.2

Is there a suitable drop-in speaker replacement for this sub I can purchase?
I mostly do Movies/TV and some music, say 80/20. The setting is in a large great-room/living room, with limited placement possibilities. Would like to keep the cost down if possible, thus asking for just a speaker replacement versus getting a whole new powered sub. If removing/replacing the speaker isn’t a good idea then I definitely welcome replacement suggestions, preferably $500 or less.

I’m not sure I know enough of to even ask the right questions, so any comments, criticisms, or questions you have would be appreciated. I just want to fill the void in my listening experience.

Thank you for your time.

P.S. Was going to attach a couple pics of the sub, but guess I don't have clearance yet.

If this was a blow out with flash and smoke, the amp is not OK. If you say this was a blowout literally, then that amp produced a massive DC offset and blew the woofer. So this unit needs checking out carefully, before installing a driver otherwise you will instantly blow the new driver.

The next issue is you will need an exact replacement driver from Paradigm. The chance of finding a driver that will work in a 1.5 cu. ft enclosure with a port of the same dimensions as that enclosure is so remote that you can forget it.

 

[Stormcrow]

First, thank you for your replies.

Secondlly, sorry for the termonology...by blowout I am referring to the speaker only. Fairly certain there is nothing wrong with the amp or other components. I took the speaker out of the box to inspect and noticed one of the wires has pulled out of the cone. There also seems to be more "in and out" free play than should be when pushing lightly on the cone itself. I pushed the wire back in so it was at least making contact and hooked it back up to see if anything would come through. Before the wire pulled back out it made noise all right, so at least signal is getting through. Pretty sure the speaker is toast though. I have no positive proof, but am thinking my better half pushed it past its limits.


So it's Paradigm replacement speaker or upgrade?

 

[TLS Guy]

First, thank you for your replies.

Secondlly, sorry for the termonology...by blowout I am referring to the speaker only. Fairly certain there is nothing wrong with the amp or other components. I took the speaker out of the box to inspect and noticed one of the wires has pulled out of the cone. There also seems to be more "in and out" free play than should be when pushing lightly on the cone itself. I pushed the wire back in so it was at least making contact and hooked it back up to see if anything would come through. Before the wire pulled back out it made noise all right, so at least signal is getting through. Pretty sure the speaker is toast though. I have no positive proof, but am thinking my better half pushed it past its limits.


So it's Paradigm replacement speaker or upgrade?

Yes, those are your choices. It sounds as is you need a heavier duty sub.

 

[riverwolf]

So it's Paradigm replacement speaker or upgrade?

While I would recommend checking with Paradigm first, I'm going to have to disagree with TLS about the possibility for finding a suitable replacement for the driver. You'll need to decide if the price from Paradigm is palatable, assuming you're not still under warranty...5 years on the driver, 3 years on the amp.

To find a suitable replacement driver, you'll need to do a little work. Paradigm says the cabinet's internal volume is 1.5 ft^3, but we don't know if that's net or gross. You'll need to measure the internal dimensions. We also need to know the the internal and external diameter of the port and it's length...note, this is not the diamter at the ends, which is flared, but the main body section. The port gets treated as a solid cylinder, hence the need for the external diameter; the ID and length combined with the box's net volume gives us the tuning frequency.

The biggest issue with a replacement driver will be how much, if any, EQ Paradigm used in the amp. EQ can be added to extend the low end response and/or shape the response peaks that happen when you place a woofer in too small of a box and/or tune it too high.

Just taking a quick WAG. Dayton's Titanic-10 Mk3 looks decent in 1.5 ft^3 tuned to 27Hz...f3=24Hz. The 27Hz tuning is possible in that cabinet with a 3"x15" port if the 1.5 is net volume after the port volume is subtracted; I get 1.8ish ft^3 gross based on .75" thick walls, so it's in the realm of possibility. Dayton's RS265HF is another candiates, but overall, I think I like the T10 better if the cabinet assumptions are correct. There are likely other candidates as well, I just had the T10 and 265HF already in my driver library...I'll be glad to run more options once you get back to us with the specifics about your cabinet.

If you rule out a Paradigm driver purchase, you could do a DIY retrofit in stages. First would be a straight up driver swap to see if it plays nice with the amp. If that turns out to be a bad combo due to custom EQ, replacement amps with flat responses are relatively easy to come by...for example, a Titanic10 and BASH500 would run you about $300 currently. The 2100's driver face is also big enough for a 12" driver, but you'd likely need to switch to a sealed alignment by removing the port. I run a 315HO with a stock BASH300 in 1.2 ft^3 sealed in my living room system, plenty of output down to 20Hz...currently, you could order both pieces for $250 delivered from Parts-Express.

-Brent

 

[Stormcrow]

To find a suitable replacement driver, you'll need to do a little work. Paradigm says the cabinet's internal volume is 1.5 ft^3, but we don't know if that's net or gross. You'll need to measure the internal dimensions. We also need to know the the internal and external diameter of the port and it's length...note, this is not the diamter at the ends, which is flared, but the main body section. The port gets treated as a solid cylinder, hence the need for the external diameter; the ID and length combined with the box's net volume gives us the tuning frequency.

-Brent

Thank you for the input! I'll give Paradigm a call tomorrow, and I'm thinking my gear is past the warranty period. I can't even find my receipts.

As far as the box dimensions go...

Interior length, width, and height = 16.5" L x 12.25" W x 12.75" H

Tube = 8" length and there's a "flared" plastic piece attached at each end which are both 3" in length. The ID of the tube is 4" in diameter. The tube is constructed of some cardboard-type substance and wall thickness can't be more than 1/8" thick.

The electronics bolted to the back face is housed in a rectangular box measuring in at 3" x 4.5" x 10.75". Not sure if that's important, but if we're getting picky it does detract a few cubic inches of volume.

There's also some wool-type padding inside the box as well.

I'd love a 12, but not sure it would squeeze in there, just seems too tight. I'm not opposed to DIY projects, but my tools are geared more towards replacing ball joints on my Hummer, not manufacturing fine cabinetry.

Again, thanks for your help.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for the input! I'll give Paradigm a call tomorrow, and I'm thinking my gear is past the warranty period. I can't even find my receipts.

As far as the box dimensions go...

Interior length, width, and height = 16.5" L x 12.25" W x 12.75" H

Tube = 8" length and there's a "flared" plastic piece attached at each end which are both 3" in length. The ID of the tube is 4" in diameter. The tube is constructed of some cardboard-type substance and wall thickness can't be more than 1/8" thick.

The electronics bolted to the back face is housed in a rectangular box measuring in at 3" x 4.5" x 10.75". Not sure if that's important, but if we're getting picky it does detract a few cubic inches of volume.

There's also some wool-type padding inside the box as well.

I'd love a 12, but not sure it would squeeze in there, just seems too tight. I'm not opposed to DIY projects, but my tools are geared more towards replacing ball joints on my Hummer, not manufacturing fine cabinetry.

Again, thanks for your help.

From your previous post your best bet is to recone your driver. That will be your cheapest solution. Paradigm can do this if you send them the driver.

Since you can work on a Hummer, you should consider doing the recing job yourself from parts supplied by Paradigm

 

[riverwolf]

Thank you for the input! I'll give Paradigm a call tomorrow, and I'm thinking my gear is past the warranty period. I can't even find my receipts.

As far as the box dimensions go...

Interior length, width, and height = 16.5" L x 12.25" W x 12.75" H

Tube = 8" length and there's a "flared" plastic piece attached at each end which are both 3" in length. The ID of the tube is 4" in diameter. The tube is constructed of some cardboard-type substance and wall thickness can't be more than 1/8" thick.

The electronics bolted to the back face is housed in a rectangular box measuring in at 3" x 4.5" x 10.75". Not sure if that's important, but if we're getting picky it does detract a few cubic inches of volume.

There's also some wool-type padding inside the box as well.

I'd love a 12, but not sure it would squeeze in there, just seems too tight. I'm not opposed to DIY projects, but my tools are geared more towards replacing ball joints on my Hummer, not manufacturing fine cabinetry.

Again, thanks for your help.

Paradigm is generally one of the companies that doesn't claim to defy physics, but your measurements aren't quite adding up with their specs. Allowing for the difficulties of measuring the inside of a cabinet through an 8" diameter hole, it looks like their 1.51 ft^3 volume is gross. Even using 1.5 as the *net* volume for calculations, a 4"x11" port (add half of the flare length to the body length), I get a tuning frequency of 40Hz...too high for a sub rated at 23 Hz in room unless it's a really small room. Call it a 3"x11" port and we drop down to a more believable 31Hz tuning. If the port tube is close enough to a cabinet wall, it extends the effective length slightly and we could be in the 27-28Hz tuning range again...any chance that's really a 3" ID tube and 4" was a typo? The wool stuffing material can also increase the apparent size of the box...make sure you leave a clear path between the driver and port opening when you reinstall.

Even if the stuffing makes the box seem like 2 ft^3, a 4"x13" port would still be tuned to 33Hz; possibly functional with some drivers, but still on the high side for me to comfortably recommend as a replacement. If your driver was still functioning, we could use test tones to figure out the functional tuning since Paradigm's performance specs seem to be so far away from what the math says it should be.

I was really hoping the numbers were closer to my pre-measurement guestimations if the OEM driver isn't an option for you. Parts-Express just put the Titanic-10 on sale for $120 through 11/18.

The 12" suggestion would mean removing some/all of the port and sealing up the opening. All you would need is to enlarge the driver opening, the baffle itself should be big enough for a 12" driver.

Good luck. Let us know what you find out from Paradigm.

-Brent