Biwiring Speakers

[2891966]

Hi I'm new to the a/v thing I've heard of biwiring speakers. I understand that it is to seperate the power going to your woofers and tweeters. I was wondering can I do this with only my a/v reciver or do I need a seperate amplifier? If I can do this with my a/v reciver how would I go about doing this?

 

[jonnythan]

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~jcgl/Scots_Guide/audio/biwire/Page1.html

As I understand, bi-wiring doesn't separate the power at all, and probably doesn't do anything.

I believe you're thinking of bi-amping.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.audiolinks.nl/biwiring/images/Untitled1Bi_Amping.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.audiolinks.nl/biwiring/biwiring.html&h=373&w=709&sz=25&tbnid=R_GlRB7brpBR_M:&tbnh=72&tbnw=138&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images?q=bi-amping&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N

 

[sploo]

jonnythan's spot on with his comments.

The second link he posted is useful, but also consider that you can use one amp to drive the low on both speakers, and another for the highs. The reason you might do this is that woofers generally require more power, so you could use two different amps.

There is some argument as to whether there's any point in bi-amping when your speakers have a passive crossover, but it might help. You must however be certain that you have a split crossover before bi-amping - i.e. removing the plates that join LF+/HF+ and LF-/HF- really does split the crossover.

The Arcam AVR300 will allow you to use the 6th and 7th channels (usually surround back) in order to biamp your front speakers. I believe there's a trick to allow some of the Denon AVR units to do this too. What receiver are you using?

 

[2891966]

I'm using the yamaha rxv 2600.

 

[sploo]

I'm afraid I'm not aware of that receiver.

If there's nothing in the manual about biamping then you'll probably need external amps, driven from the pre-outs on your receiver (assuming it has pre-outs).

My advice: if you're looking to improve the sound, then spend your money on things more likely to gain results, like acoustic room treatment.

 

[gcmarshall]

i think the RXV2600 has something in its manual about bi-amping and has the capability to do so. not sure what, if any, benefits you will see, but look at your manual to see if i am correct that it is capable of bi amping.

 

[mike c]

dont bother with biwiring, just use the thickest cables and be done with doubts that your speakers aren't getting enough signal through the highway that are the speaker wires.

I use gauge 14, use gauge 12 and you can wire from here to Timbuktu and still wont get a difference in performance.

biamping does need a separate amp, but it is more advisable to use one giant amp to power the speakers than 2 small ones powering the high and lows.

 

[j_garcia]

biamping does need a separate amp, but it is more advisable to use one giant amp to power the speakers than 2 small ones powering the high and lows.

Not exactly, and there are different ways of doing it. Biamping would allow a separate channel for each portion or the speaker being amplified, allowing more headroom for each portion, so each channel only reacts to that load, though the amp is still passing the entire range it has been sent through the speaker's x-over in a passive biamping setup. If done right, biamping would still yeild more headroom than one large amp putting out the same amount of power of two amps driving two "halves" of the speaker.

i think the RXV2600 has something in its manual about bi-amping and has the capability to do so. not sure what, if any, benefits you will see, but look at your manual to see if i am correct that it is capable of bi amping.

If it does, then it would be biamping 4 channels off a single power supply, so in effect, it isn't TRUE biamping because each channel is still limited by the total amount of available current.

 

[Leprkon]

i think the RXV2600 has something in its manual about bi-amping and has the capability to do so. not sure what, if any, benefits you will see, but look at your manual to see if i am correct that it is capable of bi amping.

you would probably be able to use Zone 2 or Zone 3 as a second driver to bi-amp your speakers, but you would have to go inside the speaker box and physically seperate the woofers from the crossover. If you just plugged in a second set of wires, you might cause a dead short through the crossover.

You would probably get a better result from simply raising your sub crossover a little (but probably not over 80). This would take the low-end load off your mains and let them do more in the mid and upper ranges. This assumes your sub enough oomph to take that load off the mains.

Zone 2 or 3 as a driving amp will also increase the heat output of the receiver.

 

[j_garcia]

you would probably be able to use Zone 2 or Zone 3 as a second driver to bi-amp your speakers, but you would have to go inside the speaker box and physically seperate the woofers from the crossover. If you just plugged in a second set of wires, you might cause a dead short through the crossover.

Not if the speakers are biampable. You would simply disconnect the jumper, effectively separating each portion of the speaker.

 

[Leprkon]

Not if the speakers are biampable. You would simply disconnect the jumper, effectively separating each portion of the speaker.

this is very true, however, many speakers that come with with a jumper are not truly bi-ampable. My Infinity Alpha's, for example, came with a jumper, but it does not actually defeat the cross-over. everything it still hooked up together on the inside.

 

[mike c]

Not exactly, ...If it does, then it would be biamping 4 channels off a single power supply, so in effect, it isn't TRUE biamping because each channel is still limited by the total amount of available current.

Ive heard that you would still need to set the crossover for each of the 2 amps ...

and, I believe using a 400w amp is better than two 200w amps. my theory is that since the highs dont use the 200w, the lows can take more headroom from part of the 200w that the highs arent using.

that being said, Infinity recommended to me that when bi-amping ... ratio should be 2:1
e.g. 200w to lows 100w to highs

 

[j_garcia]

A 400w amp is not the same as 2 200w amps, because each 200w amp has it's own power supply (assuming monoblocks in each case, with the same real world capabilities). You are correct that the tweeter/mid portion won't need as much power and the mid/bass will, but that doesn't change the fact that the available current to each set of drivers is still greater with the two amps. I don't know about 2:1, but I would definitely bias the power toward the low frequency portion of a speaker.

this is very true, however, many speakers that come with with a jumper are not truly bi-ampable. My Infinity Alpha's, for example, came with a jumper, but it does not actually defeat the cross-over. everything it still hooked up together on the inside.

Then what was the point of having the second set of binding posts? Just for looks? I've heard this about another speaker recently too. I hope you didn't find this out the hard way....

 

[Leprkon]

Then what was the point of having the second set of binding posts? Just for looks? I've heard this about another speaker recently too. I hope you didn't find this out the hard way....

Infinity is very careful in the instruction manual to state "bi-wireable" and never mentions "bi-ampable". you can pull the jumper and run a second set of wires from the "B" speaker output.

Almost every receiver out there today uses the same circuit off the power rails for "A" and "B" speakers, so you are not even really getting any extra juice to the speaker. You are simply having more wire available to carry current. This is why the 2600 would have to use "Zone 2" instead of "B" speakers to get more juice to the speakers. Zone 2 is actually a separate circuit.

As one of the earlier posts mentioned, if you get some decent 12 or 10 gage wire, bi-wiring is basically useless.

 

[2891966]

Thanks for the input guys I think I'll stick to the basics for now. Biamping sounds more involve than I prefer right now. Sounds like it wouldn't make too much of a difference anyway. Your input was appricated, thanks.