Biggest money waste in hi-fi audio

[JaceTheAce]

What products to you guys think are the biggest waste in hi-end audio, BESIDES CABLES?

Here's my list:

1) Cable lifts (they say lifting cables off the floor to provide cleaner sound)
2) CD Player heavy-weight brass feet additions (says it helps tighten bass response, WTF?!)
3) High-end AC power cords and plugs (I think this is way beyond snake oil!)

 

[brendy]

4) all of the above

 

[mtrycrafts]

What products to you guys think are the biggest waste in hi-end audio, BESIDES CABLES?

Here's my list:

1) Cable lifts (they say lifting cables off the floor to provide cleaner sound)
2) CD Player heavy-weight brass feet additions (says it helps tighten bass response, WTF?!)
3) High-end AC power cords and plugs (I think this is way beyond snake oil!)

All of the above and most tweaks along the same and similar line.

SET amps.

Dedicated CD players, external dacs.

 

[JaceTheAce]

All of the above and most tweaks along the same and similar line.

SET amps.

Dedicated CD players, external dacs.

What about the pre/pro/amp vs. receiver "all-in-one" route?

I believe that the only reason anyone should spend money on a pre/pro component separate from amplification is for amp flexibility and upgradability. Then again, most receivers have pre-outs anyway for that very reason.

 

[Hi Ho]

I can't find the link but those wooden volume knobs, selling for $400 a piece, would be quite high on my list...

 

[mtrycrafts]

I can't find the link but those wooden volume knobs, selling for $400 a piece, would be quite high on my list...

Which list would that be? The s... list?

 

[mtrycrafts]

What about the pre/pro/amp vs. receiver "all-in-one" route?

I believe that the only reason anyone should spend money on a pre/pro component separate from amplification is for amp flexibility and upgradability. Then again, most receivers have pre-outs anyway for that very reason.

I would think if ones preference is to separates would be a good reason? Or, likes to see all those components in the rack, or, has a very insensitive speaker or very difficult load might dictate a separate amp? Or, impress his friends?

 

[skrivis]

All of the above and most tweaks along the same and similar line.

SET amps.

Dedicated CD players, external dacs.

I'll have to put in my 2 cents worth about external DACs.

The "1-bit" or Bitstream DACs used in some CD players are crap IMO. (I've also seen measurements that indicate that the output sections of some DACs may have problems driving the output filters. That's more likely to happen in a cheap CD player where they might very well toss in a 741 or other sub-par opamp.)

My preference is a standard 16-bit 4X oversampling DAC.

It's my impression that the "1-bit" DACs can be made less expensively, so I would expect to see them widely used in mass-market CD players. It could well be very difficult to find an inexpensive player with a 16-bit DAC.

Given the above, I think it's a good idea to use an external DAC and then whatever player is a good deal for use as the "transport."

This is just my opinion. Also, note that the DAC I selected is far less expensive than the majority of the "boutique" DACs you see on the market, so I'm not saying you need to spend huge amounts of money.

 

[skrivis]

I would think if ones preference is to separates would be a good reason? Or, likes to see all those components in the rack, or, has a very insensitive speaker or very difficult load might dictate a separate amp? Or, impress his friends?

It seems that it would be more difficult to stuff all of that circuitry into one box. Some things like transformers need to be kept away from low-level circuits. You could wind up with more noise from a receiver, or possibly poorer crosstalk figures. It's also easier to provide separate power supplies for various stages if you have more room to do it. Having more room for things may also mean that things run cooler, thus extending the lifespan of the components.

So I think that some receivers are quite good, but that there can be advantages to seperate components too.

 

[Johnd]

Filters, conditioners and re-generators if they're not needed.

 

[mtrycrafts]

It seems that it would be more difficult to stuff all of that circuitry into one box. Some things like transformers need to be kept away from low-level circuits. You could wind up with more noise from a receiver, or possibly poorer crosstalk figures. It's also easier to provide separate power supplies for various stages if you have more room to do it. Having more room for things may also mean that things run cooler, thus extending the lifespan of the components.

So I think that some receivers are quite good, but that there can be advantages to seperate components too.

More noise and crosstalk will show up on the specs. Now, what can be detected, is the issue.

Have you looked inside a pre, a tuner, how much space and extra space there is in there? Everything is on circuit boards and chips, not much space needed.

Yes, some separates can handle the demanding speaker loads

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'll have to put in my 2 cents worth about external DACs.

The "1-bit" or Bitstream DACs used in some CD players are crap IMO. (I've also seen measurements that indicate that the output sections of some DACs may have problems driving the output filters. That's more likely to happen in a cheap CD player where they might very well toss in a 741 or other sub-par opamp.)

My preference is a standard 16-bit 4X oversampling DAC.

It's my impression that the "1-bit" DACs can be made less expensively, so I would expect to see them widely used in mass-market CD players. It could well be very difficult to find an inexpensive player with a 16-bit DAC.

Given the above, I think it's a good idea to use an external DAC and then whatever player is a good deal for use as the "transport."

This is just my opinion. Also, note that the DAC I selected is far less expensive than the majority of the "boutique" DACs you see on the market, so I'm not saying you need to spend huge amounts of money.

Cheap, $80 CDs, have held up with ones costing $1000s, under bias controlled conditions

CD Player Comparison, The Sensible Sound, # 75, Jun/Jul 1999.
CD Player Comparison, The Sensible Sound, # 74, Apr/May 1999.


CD players as a routine over-sample many times, for a very long time now.
Besides, you should see the issues in the specs. But, if you use a receiver, use that DAC

 

[thundergust]

all of the above and expensive exotic speakers that aren't any better than cheaper, but-not-$100-cheap ones. Like watches, once they exceed a few hundred bucks, say $200, a watch becomes jewellery instead.

But then again, if people have lots of money, they can buy whatever they wish...so it's not really a waste of money.

 

[Hi Ho]

Like watches, once they exceed a few hundred bucks, say $200, a watch becomes jewellery instead.

More like $10 for me. My $10 Wal-Mart watch has taken more abuse than you can imagine and it keeps on ticking.

 

[pikers]

What products to you guys think are the biggest waste in hi-end audio, BESIDES CABLES?

Here's my list:

1) Cable lifts (they say lifting cables off the floor to provide cleaner sound)
2) CD Player heavy-weight brass feet additions (says it helps tighten bass response, WTF?!)
3) High-end AC power cords and plugs (I think this is way beyond snake oil!)

Any resources to back up your beliefs, or is this another back-slapping troll post?

 

[Johnny Canuck]

I agree withthe fancy power bars being a waste of money.

I live in BC, seen lightening maybe 5 times in my life so a power surge is highly unlikely.

I bought a Tripp Lite Home Theatre Powerbar 10. It has some pretty lights, but really, a big ol' waste of $200. I could only shake my head at the fact of someone buying a Monster power bar at twice the money. All psychological IMO.

Nobody mentioned Bose but that goes without saying. Their Lifestyle line, for $5000, is flat out robbery.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

JC, you beat me to it. Technically, the question was "high end audio." I'm not sure where low or mid end ends, but here goes.

Bose - but I'll take it one step further. Wave radio. Owners think it's high end.

Monster and those who push the product in big box stores.

Satellite radio. I know, many of you swear by it. It just sounds terrible. It's fine for talk radio. Ever listen to Yahoo radio? Great tunes, but horrible quality.

Telling people there's a difference between component cables, L/R/V (red,white,yellow) cables. You'll pay more for AR component cables of the same length compared to stereo/video rca's. Also, calling a single rca a digital coax cable, and charging more for it. 75 ohm rca's are rca's people. Get a decent shielded rca, and ignore the color and label.

12ga. speaker wire priced over .35 cents a foot. It's cable. You can buy banana terminals and wire via the net and make your own beautiful cables.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... and it keeps on ticking.

Oh, you bought a Timex

 

[mtrycrafts]

all of the above and expensive exotic speakers that aren't any better than cheaper, but-not-$100-cheap ones.
.

Well, speakers are a different ballgame, to a point But, you are right, $80k speakers are hype.

 

[Hi Ho]

Oh, you bought a Timex

Aqualite... My brother bought a $100 Timex, it broke the first time he went swimming with it.