Bi Wire or Bi Amp Polk RTi 12?

[starflight]

Starflight, did you happen to buy those RTi12s at Tweeter? They were running a similar deal at my local store (spend 500 on Polk Audio products, get a free sub), and I am thinking about getting a pair of 10s to start off my system.

No actually I bought mine at Fry's. Good deal. It never hurts to have more and more bass.

 

[starflight]

I do feel that getting seperate amps for the RTi12's would be good to bring out the untapped range of the speakers, the $$$ to that I would have to spend to get decent separate amps for them would easily pay for a great subwoofer. Hence this is why I choose not to buy amps yet. Adding even the PSW10 was a more than satisfying for my living room in my apartment.

I have been considering the Adcom GFA 555 or GFA5500 though. But today I read a few threads about the Berringer A500. Good amps for low $$$.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That is simply YOUR opinion Mtrycrafts & it differs greatly from everyone who has a powerful HT separate amplifier powering their speakers.

We are relying on our ears hearing music we know very well. Not turning the joy of listening to music into a flipping science project.

So you can doubt it all you want, but it doesn't mean what we are saying is any less valid then what you are saying.

Well, science or rather nature does dictate stuff. How amps react, how speakers react and how your hearing and perception can be fooled.

So, it is more than an opinion especially when you just don't have the evidence that 'ALL Speakers' will benefit. That is just an absurd claim since that is not a 'law' nor a scientific theory, there are exceptions and I gave you a condition. So, it looks like more of an opinion at your end.

 

[mtrycrafts]

You can not even imagine .

Sure you can imagine, especially in audio, imagination creeps into much.

 

[starflight]

Any one try the RTi 12's with those Behringer amps? I'm soooooo tempted on buying them. Like I said. I'm happy using the PSW10 to fill in the lower end but having such beautiful speakers, I really want to see those 3 7" woofers do something... The highs and mids are very clear and listening to DTS 5.1 music is a sheer joy, but somehow whenever I look at my towers, they seem to be asking me to let them free...

do you guys know what I mean? =)

 

[fmw]

No, I have no idea what you mean. The Behringer amp at 8 ohms rated the same way your Yamaha receiver is rated is roughly the same in terms of power output. Pro amps like the Behringer are rated in peak watts which pretty much doubles the numbers when compared to RMS watts. The amplifiers in your receiver have inaudible distortion and a ruler flat frequency response. What do you expect to set free?

 

[fmw]

That is simply YOUR opinion Mtrycrafts & it differs greatly from everyone who has a powerful HT separate amplifier powering their speakers.

We are relying on our ears hearing music we know very well. Not turning the joy of listening to music into a flipping science project.

So you can doubt it all you want, but it doesn't mean what we are saying is any less valid then what you are saying.

What he said was not an opinion at all. It was a statement of fact. Relying on your ears to make comparative judgements of sonic quality is proven to be unreliable. What you are saying is completely invalid, not simply less valid.

Frizz, I've been an audio nut for 40 years. I've been the whole high end route - tubes, $8000 preamp, the whole route. I used to think like you. Objective listening tests cured me of it about 10 years ago. People who believe they need outboard amps for their systems and buy them are certainly going to say they sound better. And they might in some cases. But I wouldn't be convinced of it without objective comparative tests because I know better.

I recently changed from 5 separate amplifiers and a pre/pro in my own home theater to an inexpensive receiver. I did this for ease of automation - for convenience. Did I experience a change in sonic quality when I did that? Not even a tiny bit. My system sounds exactly the same because it is in the same room with the same speakers. How do I know? I conducted comparative objective tests prior to selling the pre/pro and amps. It still plays louder than I would ever consider comfortable in my 18 X 22 foot room.

Listening to music isn't a science project, as you say. But the design of audio equipment is science and engineering. Mtrycrafts was simply explaining some of the engineering to you. You can dismiss it out of hand if you like but he's right.

 

[starflight]

No, I have no idea what you mean. The Behringer amp at 8 ohms rated the same way your Yamaha receiver is rated is roughly the same in terms of power output. Pro amps like the Behringer are rated in peak watts which pretty much doubles the numbers when compared to RMS watts. The amplifiers in your receiver have inaudible distortion and a ruler flat frequency response. What do you expect to set free?

Yes the Behringer amp is rated at 8 ohms which is the same as my V2600. However my AVR is outing 130WPC. If it's true that an A500 in bridged Mono setup can output 500W, even if it is peak but 250WPC RMS, that is an improvement over my current built-in amp correct?

What do I expect to set free? I think I have mentioned it many times already about the 3 woofers not doing much. The additional power should make these puppies start to sign correct?

 

[fmw]

Yes the Behringer amp is rated at 8 ohms which is the same as my V2600. However my AVR is outing 130WPC. If it's true that an A500 in bridged Mono setup can output 500W, even if it is peak but 250WPC RMS, that is an improvement over my current built-in amp correct?

View the 500 watts as 250 watts because of the way it is rated. Bridged amps see 1/2 the nominal impedance at the outputs so your 8 ohm speakers will draw current like 4 ohm speakers eliminating much of the additional power.

What do I expect to set free? I think I have mentioned it many times already about the 3 woofers not doing much. The additional power should make these puppies start to sign correct?

Not in my opinion.

 

[starflight]

View the 500 watts as 250 watts because of the way it is rated. Bridged amps see 1/2 the nominal impedance at the outputs so your 8 ohm speakers will draw current like 4 ohm speakers eliminating much of the additional power.



Not in my opinion.

Pardon me but I'm quite novice in this stuff still. In that case and in your opinion what is it going to take to make these polk woofers work? more power? what would you recommend? What amps have you used to test these speakers with?

 

[fmw]

The speakers "work" with your receiver. You may not like the sound of them but it isn't because of the amplification. It is because you don't like the sound of them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I doubt that is so. If it is very sensitive say 100dB spl/w/m, you will hardly use much power before you go insane and deaf.

Or, if it is a poor speaker, its linear range is reached well before the amp starts to clip. So, not all speakers will benefit with more power. It all depends on the speaker, room, listening habits, etc.

I think it would be a big improvement if you use an active crossover to drive (bi-amp) the Bass section of the speaker.
If you are just passively bi-amping, I think it may still improve, but I don't think it will make a significant improvement.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...I recently changed from 5 separate amplifiers and a pre/pro in my own home theater to an inexpensive receiver...My system sounds exactly the same because it is in the same room with the same speakers...

I didn't hear that or see that...my eyes and ears are shut...

I think it depends on the processor (DSP, EQ, etc.) section.

I did a comparison with my RL-11 preamplifer vs. HK 247 Receiver vs Pioneer Elite SP99D Pre-Pro (all hooked to the same Amp and Speakers, and both the Pioneer & HK were in Direct Stereo Mode, playing the same songs on CDs).

The difference between the HK and the Preamp was not significant. But the difference between the Pioneer vs the HK and the Pioneer vs the RL-11 was significant. Knowing that sound leveling matching is important, I actually turned the volume of the SP99D up to +6dB above the other two (significantly LOUDER than both the HK & the RL-11).

I still felt that the HK & Acurus were significantly CLEARER in sound quality.

So I think it all depends on the components.

 

[starflight]

The speakers "work" with your receiver. You may not like the sound of them but it isn't because of the amplification. It is because you don't like the sound of them.

I guess you must be assuming once again. when did I say I didn't like the sound of them? In fact it is the oppose, I love the sound of the RTi12's. My question was about the 3 woofers and amplification to make them work more.

 

[fmw]

I guess you must be assuming once again. when did I say I didn't like the sound of them? In fact it is the oppose, I love the sound of the RTi12's. My question was about the 3 woofers and amplification to make them work more.

Then I have no more advice for you. Best of luck.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess you must be assuming once again. when did I say I didn't like the sound of them? In fact it is the oppose, I love the sound of the RTi12's. My question was about the 3 woofers and amplification to make them work more.

I passively bi-amp and tri-amp the heck out of my DefTechs!
Just do it!
I am using a total of 15 channels of Amps! Plus one with the Subwoofer, so actually a total of 16 amps.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I guess you must be assuming once again. when did I say I didn't like the sound of them? In fact it is the oppose, I love the sound of the RTi12's. My question was about the 3 woofers and amplification to make them work more.

Perhaps a couple of clarifications in order.
I see you have a 10" sub.
Are you unhappy with the 12s with movies or music or both?
Are they set to large? Not happy with the effects? Perhaps you need a better sub, not more power to the 12s as you would not get much action in them if a sub is connected and selected.
Full power to the 12's low driver has to be noticeable, period. Since those periods are short, it will not take much away from the receiver, period.
I doubt any additional amp to them will be for not.