Bi-amping help

[Griz]

I have a Denon 2105 and a new set of Polk Monitor 70's. I'd appreciate any help on whether I can/can't biamp, and (if so) how I'd got about doing just that.

I know that the rear channels can be set up for 7.1 surround or Zone 2, but then I also have speaker A and speaker B. It's all quite confusing to me since the instruction manual for the Denon is pretty much worthless.

I'd like to biamp, because it is my understanding that music quality will be greatly improved, which is what my setup is primarily used for.

Thanks
Jason

 

[j_garcia]

You can't biamp with a speaker A/B switch; they are the same channel. IMO, biamping off a receiver isn't going to make a noticable difference in sound at all. It yeilds more headroom, though you are still working with one power supply for all channels, but it isn't going to sound "different", and it's only going to sound more clear if your speakers actually need more power than a single channel is already capable of providing for the volume that you will be listening at.

 

[Griz]

Makes sense, thanks for the help and advice.

 

[j_garcia]

Of all the things in a system, the speakers will likely make the biggest single difference in your system. If music is your thing, save those $$$, and start shopping around. Look used too, you can stumble onto great deals on speakers used if you know what to look for (and get lucky).

 

[tbewick]

From what I've read about bi-amping, it might be worth trying out. In an old Pioneer amp manual I read, it said that the benefits are:

- Virtually no intermodulation distortion
- Finer control of tweeter/woofer balance
- Don't have to use the passive crossover networks of the speaker, with all their inherent weaknesses

On the Denon website, they seem to make out that bi-amping is worth doing. Since I've never used a bi-amped system, I can't comment on the audible difference compared to a conventional single amp set up.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

From what I've read about bi-amping, it might be worth trying out. In an old Pioneer amp manual I read, it said that the benefits are:

- Virtually no intermodulation distortion
- Finer control of tweeter/woofer balance
- Don't have to use the passive crossover networks of the speaker, with all their inherent weaknesses

...

That third point is key. Pioneer was evidently talking about *true* biamping using active crossovers, for which everything they said is true. This requires you to remove or bypass the passive crossovers in your speakers and use an active crossover. With most receivers this can't be done without also getting ouboard amps and totally bypassing the receiver's amps, since active crossovers go between the preamp and power amp. You'd be using your receiver strictly as a preamp/processor.

Otherwise, j_garcia pretty well sez it all. Give that man a chiclet!

 

[goodman]

How to Bi-Amp With A Denon Receiver

Go to the home page of this web site. In the left column, go to "Read Reviews". Click on "Receivers and Amplifiers". Then click on Gene DellaSala's review of the Denon AVR-5803. At page 4, he lays out the steps for configuring the receiver for bi-amping. I suspect the procedure will be identical for your 2105.

 

[Duffinator]

I'd like to biamp, because it is my understanding that music quality will be greatly improved, which is what my setup is primarily used for.

Thanks
Jason

Don't count on it. I have my 3805 bi-amped to my Mirage 595is speakers and it's barely noticable. The bass seemed more controlled but not by a big margin but I doubt I could tell the difference in a DBT. In the end I thought it was a neat idea, I have a seperate amp for powering other zones and am not using those two channels, and the speaker wire and extra interconnect were not a big expense so I left mine bi-amped, just for fun.

Do a search and there are several threads talking about bi-amping the 3805 and other receivers.

 

[j_garcia]

I did the same thing in my little bedroom system with my 902s and a separate amp I have. The only real difference that was obvious was that I could crank it higher without distortion, and at elevated levels, everything was better controlled. Sound wasn't improved.

I my main system, adding monoblocks to my 4 Ohm speakers made a noticable difference because my receiver wasn't capable of giving them everything they needed when I turned it up.

 

[MacManNM]

Don't count on it. I have my 3805 bi-amped to my Mirage 595is speakers and it's barely noticable. The bass seemed more controlled but not by a big margin but I doubt I could tell the difference in a DBT. In the end I thought it was a neat idea, I have a seperate amp for powering other zones and am not using those two channels, and the speaker wire and extra interconnect were not a big expense so I left mine bi-amped, just for fun.

Do a search and there are several threads talking about bi-amping the 3805 and other receivers.

I don't know about the mirage speakers, but the Polks are 4 ohm speakers (although they are spec’d at 8) that are incredible pigs when it comes to power. I don’t know that Bi-amping will help that much, but the Denon products (3805 and lower) have current limiters built into the amp, thus they have a hard time pushing low Z loads. I would recommend an external amp that can drive those loads at the least.

 

[Duffinator]

I don't know about the mirage speakers, but the Polks are 4 ohm speakers (although they are spec’d at 8) that are incredible pigs when it comes to power. I don’t know that Bi-amping will help that much, but the Denon products (3805 and lower) have current limiters built into the amp, thus they have a hard time pushing low Z loads. I would recommend an external amp that can drive those loads at the least.

My speakers are rated at 6 ohm and my 3805 doesn't seem to have a problem driving them. I did the bi-amp as more of an experiment to see what if any difference there would be plus I get to answer a lot of questions for others trying this experiment.

 

[MacManNM]

My speakers are rated at 6 ohm and my 3805 doesn't seem to have a problem driving them. I did the bi-amp as more of an experiment to see what if any difference there would be plus I get to answer a lot of questions for others trying this experiment.

Your experience and advice make sense under this scenario. I believe his results will be much more noticeable, based on the fact that the Z of his system is lower than yours.

 

[Griz]

Wow, this thread received more attention than I was expecting. I guess I'll read up on it a bit more.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I have a Denon 2105 and a new set of Polk Monitor 70's. I'd appreciate any help on whether I can/can't biamp, and (if so) how I'd got about doing just that.

I know that the rear channels can be set up for 7.1 surround or Zone 2, but then I also have speaker A and speaker B. It's all quite confusing to me since the instruction manual for the Denon is pretty much worthless.

I'd like to biamp, because it is my understanding that music quality will be greatly improved, which is what my setup is primarily used for.

Thanks
Jason

Griz,
You cannot biamp the 2105 using Zone 2 or 3. Only the 3805 and up models are capable of self biamping. If you had a 3805, you would use the 6th and 7th channel amps to biamp your front towers. You then would have a 5.1 receiver instead of a 7.1.

There is only one power supply, and one transformer in the 3805. IMHO internal biamping does not compare to adding a separate power amp to your preouts.

 

[Duffinator]

Your experience and advice make sense under this scenario. I believe his results will be much more noticeable, based on the fact that the Z of his system is lower than yours.

My external amp is a HK PA2000 powering two other zones. The HK is bridgeable into 2x100 wpc. One of these days I'll connect the HK to power my fronts to see if I can hear a difference. While it's not the most esoteric amp out there it could make a difference, or at least take some load off of my 3805. If it sounded better I could still use the two extra channels in the 3805 to power the other zones. But I suspect, like the bi-amp experiment, that there won't be much of a difference.