Aholloway17

Aholloway17

Audiophyte
I have recently acquired two Carver M-1.0t amps replacing my Hafler 9130s which I ran in mono. The Carvers are being Bi-amp'd and I have questions regarding the connection and sound stage. From the Rotel pre-amp left channel runs to one amp running highs while the other channel goes to the low amp. The inter connects both have y connectors...just to be clear. The speakers are B&W 603 S2. I believe that is the correct configuration for Bi-Amp mode? The next question is...while the change in quality is clear...depth of sound, tightness of and commanding bass etc...the stereo separation seems to be lost or less clear. Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on some jazz cd's it is good but on most CD's and MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?

Allen
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Either I'm confused or you've wired it wrong. Left channel to Y into amp then to hi and low on left speaker. Repeat for right side. This is referred to as vertical bi-amping and the way I'd go in your situation.

For horizontal bi-amping; you'd split each channel between the amps, one for highs and one for lows. L/R to highs amp, L/R to lows amp.

Article w/ diagram: http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm
 
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Aholloway17

Aholloway17

Audiophyte
My apologies, I typed my information incorrectly:eek: The amps are configured as suggested in the article, funny that is the article I followed to setup originally:D My questions remains though about separation...the stereo separation seems to be lost or less clear. Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on most jazz cd's it is good but on some CD's and nearly all MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?

Allen
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My apologies, I typed my information incorrectly:eek: The amps are configured as suggested in the article, funny that is the article I followed to setup originally:D My questions remains though about separation...the stereo separation seems to be lost or less clear. Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on most jazz cd's it is good but on some CD's and nearly all MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?

Allen
If you followed their horizontal set up, it seems to me they got the left ch of the hi freq amp connected to the right ch speaker and the right ch of the hi amp connected to the left speaker. In that case, you will have problem with stereo imaging/separation.

If you connected it right, that is, not the way their diagram shows it, then you may want to check and make sure you didn't have the polarities wrong. You must connect the + amps output terminals to the + speakers terminals in a consistent fashion all the way through.
 
AVRat

AVRat

Audioholic Ninja
Good catch Peng, I just did a quick net search looking for diagrams. I just assumed they were correct. Yeah reversed polarities will throw the imaging off.
 
Aholloway17

Aholloway17

Audiophyte
I caught that in the setup diagram and simply ignored as it seemed only appropriate. I have it connected correctly but my question remains with regards to stereo separation on CD and MP3. Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on most jazz cd's it is good but on some CD's and nearly all MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on most jazz cd's it is good but on some CD's and nearly all MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?
Strange how you seem to be stuck on this "B0se" thing.:confused:

While the recording does make a difference, if it sounds much different that it did before with the same recordings it shouldn't be the recordings, that isn't logical. Therefore, it must be the wiring or faulty equipment, because recordings don't suddenly go bad, unless you are using tapes that where in contact with magnet recently.
 
N

Nick250

Audioholic Samurai
I caught that in the setup diagram and simply ignored as it seemed only appropriate. I have it connected correctly but my question remains with regards to stereo separation on CD and MP3. Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on most jazz cd's it is good but on some CD's and nearly all MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?
There are two primary parts to sound quality, the first is speaker choice and room acoustics. The second is the media. You have control over the first, but not the second. My experience with most CD's is that they have poor dynamic range which I don't believe you can correct for. Try out Eagles HFO concert DVD. Great dynamics to my ears.

Nick
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I caught that in the setup diagram and simply ignored as it seemed only appropriate. I have it connected correctly but my question remains with regards to stereo separation on CD and MP3. Now I know the recordings or source have a lot to do with it and on most jazz cd's it is good but on some CD's and nearly all MP3's might as well use a Bose. Is it the recording or am I missing something?
Okay you have it connected correctly (in terms of Left channel of amp to left channel of speaker and right channel of amp to right channel of speaker) because you noticed the error in that diagram, but did you also double check to make sure all 4 pairs of wires connected to the speakers are consistent in terms of polarity, that is + to +, and - to - terminals.

Sorry for repeating this same question I asked in my last response but if you are suffering from poor stereo separation after you biamp, and you have the preamp to amps to speakers connected correctly in terms of left to left and right to right all the way through, then the only other prime suspect is that the polarities of the wires are reversed in one speaker. That is, you have + to + in one speaker and + to - in the other speaker.

If there is no mistake here neither, then may be one of the amp's (mostly the amp you added because you were fine before)output terminals are connected in reverse polarity internally (meaning the + terminal is actually - and vice versa). In that case you can find out easily by reversing the +/- at either one of the amp's terminals or the speaker's terminal but not both.

By the way, in the biamp/or biwire configuration if only the bass driver of one speaker's polarity is reversed you will get less bass due to the cancellation effect between the left and right speakers. If only the hi (or mid in some cases) range drivers are reversed in one of the speakers, you stereo imaging will be affected especially the phantom center channel. If you play a vocal CD, the voice will appear to float between left to right as opposed to coming from the center in a rock solid manner.

Other than that I cannot think of any other reasons that would degrade stereo separation/imaging in your system. Hopefully other members can offer more scenarios. Best of luck!
 
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Aholloway17

Aholloway17

Audiophyte
Well...thanks for all the input. She be a wired correctly :D and sounding great. As for the imaging...well most of the MP3's absolutely suck. Many of the CD's sound just incredible but some still sound crappy so I guess in those cases its just the original recording.

Thanks for all the help,

Allen
 
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