Better Loudspeaker Specs, Brands Unite to Discuss

gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Guys, this is one Youtube livestream you won't want to miss happening on our channel today.

Improving Loudspeaker Specifications Standards for Consumers (Live on Sept 3rd, 6:00pm EDT)

Loudspeaker specifications are often ambiguous or incomplete in consumer audio making purchasing decisions more difficult for consumers than they should be. We are bringing together engineers and scientists from some of the leading industry brands to discuss better ways toward specing loudspeakers. We are proud to welcome Dr. Sean Olive of Harman, Scott Orth of Polk, Shane Rich of RBH Sound, Dan Roemer of Perlisten and Anthony Grimani.

 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I wonder why Paul Barton wasnt included in this as PSB have more in depth specs than most loudspeaker companies.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I wonder why Paul Barton wasnt included in this as PSB have more in depth specs than most loudspeaker companies.
I only include companies whom we've actually measured their products and have review experience with. PSB/NAD doesn't seek out much press with us so unfortunately they weren't part in this as a result.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Still watching this... about 1 hr in. Really good, so far.
You guys have pushed out a crazy amount of content over the last couple days, @gene .
Hope you got a mini-vacation planned! :D
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Still watching this... about 1 hr in. Really good, so far.
You guys have pushed out a crazy amount of content over the last couple days, @gene .
Hope you got a mini-vacation planned! :D
3 day weekend ahead and celebrating my oldest daughter's 21st B-Day. Yes some time off much needed. thanks.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I just finished watching that Gene, it was excellent. It is a discussion that defintely needs to be continued.

I thought the discussion on power response was important. I have tried to press the imprtance of this on these forums over the years.

However in my view, it is imprtant to look at the power response over different defined frequency bands, and the power required to produce it. For one thing the transition frequency is going to require more power from the amp below that freqeuncy. Not only that, but the speaker has to handle that power without a redction in the in room spl. due to the speaker reaching its electrical or mechanical limits.

This inforamtion would be helpful for consumers choosing speakers better suited to their listening preferences.

On my DAW the metering of WaveLab shows moment to moment where the power is required, across he whole audible bandwidth. This varies signifcantly by the music genre being played.

So I think there needs to be more focused discusion on this topic. Many speakers, especially three ways, with single small midrange drivers, have a very deficinet mid band power response for many genre's of music, especially in the classical domain, and that especially applies to choral music.

The impedance issue also needs to be discussed further. I'm glad they stated that there are virtually no four ohm speakers, and precious few six ohm speakers. The vast majority of speakers are four ohm. All members would do well to assume their speakers are four ohm, unless there are measurements to the contrary.

That is why receiver manufacturers not specifying four ohm performance is a disgrace and needs to stop.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
I only include companies whom we've actually measured their products and have review experience with. PSB/NAD doesn't seek out much press with us so unfortunately they weren't part in this as a result.
I take "doesn't seek out much press with us" to be codespeak for 'doesn't spend advertising money with me.'

Sorry if that offends you, but that's how it sounds.

That's a little harsh. I realize that this forum, the videos, e-books, and all the other info you provide here costs a lot and revenue fuels it.

In the case of Paul Barton, he doesn't own PSB, Lenbrook Group does. As such there's a pretty good chance that Lenbrook keeps a tight rein on who he talks to and about what. They don't spend much on advertising the PSB line anymore, they seem more interested in growing the Dali line for which they are the North American (Canada and USA) importer and distributor.
 
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W

wgb113

Enthusiast
Standardized measurements would be a welcome advancement…for consumers who care. I love Anthony geeking out of the commercial measurements manufacturers provide versus consumers but they’ll need to dumb it down substantially for the mass market to care enough to understand.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Standardized measurements would be a welcome advancement…for consumers who care. I love Anthony geeking out of the commercial measurements manufacturers provide versus consumers but they’ll need to dumb it down substantially for the mass market to care enough to understand.
That is not entirely true. Many home enthusiasts do employ consultants to some degree, and even engage professional integrators. This lack of credible, standardized and believable specs makes it impossible to render useful advice.

Take these forums. People constantly seek advice about there plans and purchases, but we can't really help them. I hardly ever give advice about what speakers to purchase, as there is no way to give any good advice at all, without getting a bunch of speakers here and testing them. Very few speakers have had thorough third party testing.

So at this time to do justice to a given architectural space, I would have to design, build and test the speakers.

This lousy situation is why most members have systems that are far short of what could be achieved if we could do complete system design within a specified budget and architectural constraints.

This is a major reason I don't go out and buy speakers, but design, build and test my own. I have to say if I do visit a dealer, then it is seldom I hear a speaker at what is an affordable price for many, that is any good. Add to that some very high priced speakers are among the worst.
 
W

wgb113

Enthusiast
That is not entirely true. Many home enthusiasts do employ consultants to some degree, and even engage professional integrators. This lack of credible, standardized and believable specs makes it impossible to render useful advice.

Take these forums. People constantly seek advice about there plans and purchases, but we can't really help them. I hardly ever give advice about what speakers to purchase, as there is no way to give any good advice at all, without getting a bunch of speakers here and testing them. Very few speakers have had thorough third party testing.

So at this time to do justice to a given architectural space, I would have to design, build and test the speakers.

This lousy situation is why most members have systems that are far short of what could be achieved if we could do complete system design within a specified budget and architectural constraints.

This is a major reason I don't go out and buy speakers, but design, build and test my own. I have to say if I do visit a dealer, then it is seldom I hear a speaker at what is an affordable price for many, that is any good. Add to that some very high priced speakers are among the worst.
A good point about integrators/system designers utilizing the standardized measurements but I’m not sure “many” people use their services when assembling a system. People like Grimani and Poes are serving a niche of an already small niche compared to the mass market that consume audio and video in their home. I’m just unsure that you can make it understandable enough to that mass market yet keep it useful.

Again, I’m all for it from an enthusiast/integrator/anyone who cares enough standpoint but for broad adoption from manufacturers I think it has to be utilized by more of the market than that.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
A good point about integrators/system designers utilizing the standardized measurements but I’m not sure “many” people use their services when assembling a system. People like Grimani and Poes are serving a niche of an already small niche compared to the mass market that consume audio and video in their home. I’m just unsure that you can make it understandable enough to that mass market yet keep it useful.

Again, I’m all for it from an enthusiast/integrator/anyone who cares enough standpoint but for broad adoption from manufacturers I think it has to be utilized by more of the market than that.
We have at least a half dozen members here that accurate speaker specs would help us in assisting other members. Right now we are hobbled. I suspect that is the intent, but it is a disgrace. The market is awash in far too many thrown together suboptimal speakers, and few stand outs.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Publications like Canada's Soundstage, this site (but I haven't seen a detailed review of speakers including measurements in quite some time), ASR, and Stereophile provide decent measurements. It's also no surprise that PSB's published specs don't deviate very much at all from the measurements taken from these publications.
 

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