Best video process'g (1080i - 1080p) AVR~$2,000

[CNY Audio Guy]

I just purchased a Pioneer KURO PDP-6020FD and PSB G-Series speakers; now I need to replace my Yamaha RX-V1600 (HDMI 1.1 v) receiver.

In the "Home Theater Magazine June 2008" review on video processing of mid-priced AVR receivers both the Yamaha 3800 & Z11 were poorly rated for video processing; specifically " Surprisingly, there was absolutely no processing for HD signals at all. Even with analog sources, the AVR would simply pass the video through. This is better than applying a video solution that cannot handle a 1080i source properly, but we would still like to see receivers move toward solutions that can at least deinterlace 1080i to 1080p now that there is so much 1080i broadcast HD out there".

I have (4) Yahama receivers so I enjoy the audio features but now am looking for a new AVR and originally considered the Yamaha 3800.

Now I'm looking at the Pioneer SC-07.

However the Home Theater Mag review of the Pioneer SC-09 ( the '07's big brother ) was unflattering in the video process capabilities so the SC-07 will be no better!

My questions:

1. why would I purchase a AVR with only "pass through" ( no video editing).

2. The comment of the HT mag reviewer in quotes above makes sensesense to me ; I want my cable 1080i digital signal upconverted to 1080p.

Moderators / AVR experts: What receivers today in the $2,000 range do a decent job of scaling and upconverting both HD & SD sources?

Most receivers in this range ( Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz ) have very hi-quality audio capabilities.

I want to maximize both my cable HD(1080i), regular cable ( 480p ) and my Blu-ray VIDEO sources on this awesome Pioneer Kuro 60in just installed yesterday.

Please provide you subjective opinions on what to purchase ( will be on line - great discounts ). Any on line sources to avoid based on experience?

Thanks
CNY Audio Guy

 

[Adam]

Hi, I posted a quick reply to your similar question in another thread, but I'll repost it here for convenience.

Hi. If the video source signal isn't at the same resolution as your television, it will be scaled. The issue is simply where will it be scaled and which component will do the best job. The scaling can be done at the source (e.g. upscaling DVD player), between the source and the TV (e.g. receiver), or at the TV itself.

If you send a 480i signal to a television with a 1920x1080 resolution, the television will scale the signal to match its native resolution. It has to. If the scaler in the TV is a good one, then there's no reason to do any scaling before hand (with either an upscaling DVD player or a video processor in a receiver).

 

[PENG]

At that price range, you can choose from AVRs such as the Denon AVR4310, Onkyo TX-SR875 or 876, TX-NR905 or 906, Integra DTR8.8, 8.9, 9.9 and the Yamaha RX-V3900 or RX-Z7. I don't think you will gain much though because you are limited by the PQ controlled by the cable company. Your Kuro simply has to de-interlace the signal and I think it can do a decent job without the help of the AVR.

 

[bandphan]

I think that the 2 above responses hit the nail on the the head, your display will do the job. If you feel the need for "processing" the signal prior and you do not want your source components to to it, look into an external unit. AVRs in your price range are simply not a viable option

 

[Lordoftherings]

Top AVR video processors.

1. Denon AVR-5308ci (HQV Realta)
2. Yamaha RX-Z7 (VRS ABT2010)
3. Onkyo TX-NR906 and Integra DTR-9.9 (HQV Reon VX-50)
4. Onkyo TX-SR876 and Integra DTR-8.9 (HQV Reon VX-50)
5. Yamaha RX-V3900 (VRS ABT-2010)
6. Onkyo TX-NR905 and Integra DTR-9.8 (HQV Reon VX-50)
7. Onkyo TX-SR875 and Integra DTR-8.8 (HQV Reon VX-50)
8. Denon AVR-4310ci (VRS ABT-2010) *New
9. Denon AVR-3310ci (VRS ABT-2010) *New
10. Denon AVR-2310ci and AVR-990 (VRS ABT-2010) *New

-> Only the Denon AVR-5308ci will cost more than $2,000 (street).

 

[CNY Audio Guy]

Your responses have been very enlightening.

In the list of "top ten" video processing AVR's the constant is the video processing chip utilized obviously.

What surprises me is the lack of the Pioneer Elite SC-09 or 07 AVR's or the Marantz 8002.

Additionally the inclusion of the Yamaha RX-V3900.

Does anyone know if the Yamaha RX-V3900 uses the same video processing chip as the Yamaha RX-V3800?

If it does the Home Theater magazing review of video processing AVR's was not very complimentary to the YAMAHA's RX-V3800.

Will the video processing capability of my Pioneer Kuro also upconvert analog signals to digital 1080p? I always thought this was a requirement of the AVR and the HDTV simply displayed the native signal it received.

I'm a big fan of Yamaha receivers but I want the best available video processing for the $1000 to $1200 street price range.

Thanks again and I apologize for my ignorance in this complicated ( for me ) topic.

 

[bandphan]

Will the video processing capability of my Pioneer Kuro also upconvert analog signals to digital 1080p? I always thought this was a requirement of the AVR and the HDTV simply displayed the native signal it received.

your display will scale any image to match the native resolution of 1920x1080p. Adding processing could make the image quality worse. You have a very nice display, let it do its job I go as far as to want zero processing of any kind, all images sent native untouched where as absolutley possible.

 

[PENG]

Does anyone know if the Yamaha RX-V3900 uses the same video processing chip as the Yamaha RX-V3800?

No it is different, the 3900 uses the ABT2010 VRS that is expected to be superior to the 3800's ABT1010.

Will the video processing capability of my Pioneer Kuro also upconvert analog signals to digital 1080p? I always thought this was a requirement of the AVR and the HDTV simply displayed the native signal it received.

Yes, as bandphan said, it has to convert it to its native resolution, that is 1080p.

I'm a big fan of Yamaha receivers but I want the best available video processing for the $1000 to $1200 street price range.

In that case, you may be limited to the Onkyo 875, 876 as the Denon and Yamaha models may be (not sure though) out of your reach at that street price range.

 

[Davemcc]

I once thought in the same terms as expressed in the original post. That's one of the big reasons I chose the Reon HQV equipped DTC-9.8. After using and experimenting for some time, I find it's best to leave the 9.8 in pass through mode and let the TV do the scaling. The Reon is arguably one of the best commercially available processors out there yet I find better results by not using it.

I suggest that in terms of video processing, the key feature you want from your receiver is that it do no harm to the signal on it's way through your system. After blowing my dough on a nice processor, I'd say that if you can find a reasonably priced AVR with all the audio features you want with transparent video pass through, that's going to work out just fine.

 

[CNY Audio Guy]

Very helpful; thanks a bunch!

 

[Biggiesized]

I own a Kuro and it's video processing is overrated. I get lots of combing artifacts when watching TNT HD all the time. It can handle some of the more funkier cadences, however.

Get a receiver with an Anchor Bay ABT2010 chip or an HQV Reon or Realta.

 

[Lordoftherings]

your display will scale any image to match the native resolution of 1920x1080p. Adding processing could make the image quality worse. You have a very nice display, let it do its job I go as far as to want zero processing of any kind, all images sent native untouched where as absolutley possible.

+1 Bandphan is absolutely right, your Pioneer Elite Kuro has an already very nice video processor. So, you don't need another redundant one. What you want is a receiver with a pure clean path through HDMI, a straight Pass Through without touching the image in any way, no black and white clipping, just a pure unaltered passage of the video signal.

So, the Pioneer Elite SC-07 A/V receiver should go very nicely with your Pioner Elite Kuro. And the SC-07 was only $899 a week or so ago. Was it at Videogon? I believe so.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Pioneer Elite Kuro Plasma and the right A/V receiver.

I own a Kuro and it's video processing is overrated. I get lots of combing artifacts when watching TNT HD all the time. It can handle some of the more funkier cadences, however.

Get a receiver with an Anchor Bay ABT2010 chip or an HQV Reon or Realta.

You are into something here. Some Kuro models do better video processing than others. Usually it's the higher end models that are the better ones.
If I would own a kuro higher end, and I knew for a fact that the video processor is excellent, I will probably get the Pioneer Elite SC-07 A/V receiver with a Pioneer Elite blu-ray player. The SC-07 was only $899 at Videogon not long ago, a tremendous discount!

And the VRS ABT2010 is a top notch chip of excellent video processing.
The one in the YAmaha RX-Z7 is cool, because you have several video setups for each HDMI inputs, like the HQV Reon VX-50 in the Onkyo 876 and 906.
The Yamaha RX-V3900 also has the VRS ABT2010 video chip, but without all the video adjustments for each separate HDMI inputs.

The Z7 street price is about $1,800 (just a pure guess).
The RX-V3900 is $1,200 or maybe even less now.
The Onkyo TX-NR906 is $1,250 (Toroidal + 2 additional transformers).
And the TX-SR876 is $950 (used to be only $875 at one point).
* Yamahas used the VRS ABT2010, and Onkyos used the HQV Reon VX-50.

And of course, the best deal, the best value and the best performance between these four, is the TX-SR876. Amazing value and performance for the price, compares to other receivers in the $2,000 to $3,000 range easily.
I own the 876 right now, and I am amazed at the price and the tremendous value for this machine, it is out of the charts.
10 years ago, I pay more than twice that price for a receiver without DTS, no multichannel analog output, nothing at all! It was just 100 watts x 5 channels with Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby Digital. Oh, and few DSP audio modes that sound crappy.

To find out if your Kuro model does a good job on the video processing side, just Google it and read some reviews. It's easy, the Kuros are always reviewed. Check Ultimate AV Mag and Home Theater Mag, and Sound & Vision Mag, and several other places.

Bob

Note: The Yammy RX-Z11, the RX-V3800 and the RX-V1800 have a much more inferior VRS ABT video processor with some fatal flaws.
The Z11 has the ABT1018 video chip.
The RX-V3800 and RX-V1800 have the ABT1010 video chip.
Yamaha screw up big time last year, and this year they fix their big mistakes by the better models using the ABT2010 chip. But then, their lower line of receivers is worst than the previous years. Can't win all the way, such is life.

 

[bandphan]

I own a Kuro

ok to each their own

 

[bandphan]

I own a Kuro and it's video processing is overrated. I get lots of combing artifacts when watching TNT HD all the time. It can handle some of the more funkier cadences, however.

Get a receiver with an Anchor Bay ABT2010 chip or an HQV Reon or Realta.

ok to each their own

and just so everyone is clear, overcompressed HD chanels do not bode well on most all 1080p displays when it comes to artifacts

 

[Lordoftherings]

Yep. ^

Makes good sense. ^

 

[Biggiesized]

No, I find TNT HD and TBS HD to be very watchable. They are the best 1080i networks out there in terms of picture quality (although they do elevate their black levels a bit).

Still, that's no excuse for the PRO-111FD to fail deinterlacing a 1080i film signal.

 

[Lordoftherings]

One of thee very best: Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD Plasma display.

No, I find TNT HD and TBS HD to be very watchable. They are the best 1080i networks out there in terms of picture quality (although they do elevate their black levels a bit).

Still, that's no excuse for the PRO-111FD to fail deinterlacing a 1080i film signal.

Your Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD is a fantastic Plasma TV.

Checking at reviews all around, it is a highly praised TV set.

It might not be perfect, but it is much better than any other set at that price and below. The minor compromises are well worth it in my opinion.
Of course, it does have some white clipping and some judder on difficult material, but it has the best black in the business, and this is quasi 3D (dimensional) picture quality. If you want a good 1080i deinterlacing video processor, may I recommend you a Samsung blu-ray player with the HQV Reon video processor, or a Panasonic blu-ray player, like the BD35 or BD60, with the P4HD Uniphier video processor.
These are very cheap (cost very little money) and are the best at 1080i film material. As for standard and cable material, your PRO-111FD is not the best, no. But it is nonetheless still quite reasonable.

You seems like a perfectionist, juste like me. But don't forget that such perfection is generally in the tens of thousand figure.

Be very happy with what you got.

Bob

 

[bandphan]

No, I find TNT HD and TBS HD to be very watchable. They are the best 1080i networks out there in terms of picture quality (although they do elevate their black levels a bit).

Still, that's no excuse for the PRO-111FD to fail deinterlacing a 1080i film signal A film signal , how does your display do with a 480i dvd

Fail, have you ever considered what 1050 of compressed crap is to resolve? its the source, get over it. If you think im wrong, please by all means prove it And when you do, also explain how a mid fi avr does it better.