Best network/pc/mac capable pre/pro or AVR???

[PauldF2]

Ok, I know that the HT suppliers are finally getting the message and including networking capabilities in their newer units, and I also know that most of the GenX'rs think mp3 is high quality music reproduction, but I also know that this Website/forum consists of people like myself - techies-semi techies perhaps a little older than 30something and not living with our parents. We have been working all our adult lives with PCs and Macs, have decent HT rooms and have spent fairly large amounts of time and money buying, setting up, tearing down and upgrading our home theaters. Lots of us have enabled separate zones either through AVR's or Sonos systems, have wired our houses with cat5e and rg-7 and also have wireless connectivities. We've spent hours converting vast CD and camcorder video collections to flac,aac or wma stored on TB drives or multi TB RAIDS. Some of us may have lost a spouse or two in the process and only really regretted it due to crimp it put in our HT buying plans. We also tend to like classic sports cars, aerobatic airplanes, fine wines and Scotches, but that's a little besides the point here.

So my question is, how do we combine all the disparate protocols, systems and equipment above into an easy to use, high-quality HT system - without having to move back into our octogenarian parents' homes (ruining their golden years and ours) just to afford it?

I'm aware that there are $30,000+ media servers and $10,000+ outboard 2 channel dacs out there, but again, I'd rather not trouble my Mom by rattling her Hummel figurines off her shelves or drive her persian cat outside to the coyotes just to afford it.

I was considering trying to find a truely network ready/capable AVR or pre/pro, but the reviews are seriously mixed on how well they play in that sandbox. Marantz AV7005+MM7055? - not such great reviews on handling it's dlna homework assignments. The Denon 4311? Seems like a nice unit, has XT32 and 140watts/channel, has an ethernet port and supports Apple Airplay, but again pretty mixed reviews on it's handling of wired or wireless LAN sources. Ah, the 3312? The product lit seems good on the networking side, but few realworld reviews on that and you lose 15wpc and the xt32! The 4312? Oh yea - that darn tsunami rained on that parade.

So I ask you, what else works as well or better than the 4312 would have - in the same price range? Still having a wife (and kids) to please, unplugging gear behind large heavy furniture/racks when a lame unit rated as Airplay ready or dlna 1.5 freezes up just isn't going to cut it. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[bikemig]

The easiest solution, at least for me, has been to simply attach a PC, in this case a mac mini, to my network. It handles all the audio and video streaming without a hiccup.

 

[bikdav]

Great Point

The easiest solution, at least for me, has been to simply attach a PC, in this case a mac mini, to my network. It handles all the audio and video streaming without a hiccup.

That's a great point. After checking a couple of these net-tune units out, I'm now leaning toward buying a suitable laptop and tuning in that way. Not only can I plug it into my existing system, but a laptop is portable when I need to take the music with me into another room. Or, if the house is set up wireless [a network like you mentioned], the laptop can transmit to other receiving devices. The laptops sound won't be good by itself, but I can still listen to my program. Great point you brought up.

 

[sholling]

Receiver networking technologies are still pretty primitive. The easiest solution is to attach a network media device like a Western Digital TV Live Plus for like $90. You can network it (hard wire) or attach a compatible USB wireless adapter (there's whole list at WD), or attach up to 2 USB hard drives. They do a great job of playing most media. The only limitations that I know of are they don't play 24bit FLAC (16bit only) files or lossless Blu-Ray formats. If you don't need those from a media player then it's probably the cheapest and slickest solution.

File Formats Supported

• Video - AVI (Xvid, AVC, MPEG1/2/4), MPG/MPEG, VOB, MKV (h.264, x.264, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, VC-1), TS/TP/M2T (MPEG1/2/4, AVC, VC-1), MP4/MOV (MPEG4, h.264), M2TS, WMV9, FLV (h.264)
• Photo - JPEG, GIF, TIF/TIFF, BMP, PNG
• Audio - MP3, WAV/PCM/LPCM, WMA, AAC, FLAC, MKA, AIF/AIFF, OGG, Dolby Digital, DTS
• Playlist - PLS, M3U, WPL
• Subtitle - SRT, SSA, SUB, SMI

Or you can take the more complex route and build a home theater PC that will do everything. I used and still use a WDTV Live but recently built a HTPC for my family room.

 

[PauldF2]

Thanks guys,
Was considering those options, but have a huge bottlenect with a non-hdmi/non-ethernet capable AVR (Denon 3805) and a TV with both hdmi ports already in use.

BikeMig, could you elaborate on exactly what you are using (I see the list at the bottom of your post but am not familiar will many of those items), why and how? Could do so in a PM if you like or email me. The details would be really useful. I suppose I should list my gear etc. in my profile so it can be seen by all to help with recommendations - will have to look into that when I get a minute! If I did buy a mac mini, are you connecting it to the HT via a front panel hdmi port? (which I can't do front or back on the 3805 currently)

Sholling, I had looked into WDTV Live about a year ago and some people were expressing concerns about it's robustness, but my real concern is again the bottleneck axpressed above.

I know I could just put in a hdmi switch, but I really don't want to add any more boxes - I really just was hoping to replace my current AVR and maybe add a new Oppo 93 for BD plus streaming. Are there any really better AVR's or pre/pro's that are doing the networking any better than the 3312ci or 4311ci? Why are these manufacturers having such a hard time with networking? There are a million stable, highbandwith NIC cards out there!

 

[bikemig]

Thanks guys,
Was considering those options, but have a huge bottlenect with a non-hdmi/non-ethernet capable AVR (Denon 3805) and a TV with both hdmi ports already in use.

BikeMig, could you elaborate on exactly what you are using (I see the list at the bottom of your post but am not familiar will many of those items), why and how? Could do so in a PM if you like or email me. The details would be really useful. I suppose I should list my gear etc. in my profile so it can be seen by all to help with recommendations - will have to look into that when I get a minute! If I did buy a mac mini, are you connecting it to the HT via a front panel hdmi port? (which I can't do front or back on the 3805 currently)

Sholling, I had looked into WDTV Live about a year ago and some people were expressing concerns about it's robustness, but my real concern is again the bottleneck axpressed above.

I know I could just put in a hdmi switch, but I really don't want to add any more boxes - I really just was hoping to replace my current AVR and maybe add a new Oppo 93 for BD plus streaming. Are there any really better AVR's or pre/pro's that are doing the networking any better than the 3312ci or 4311ci? Why are these manufacturers having such a hard time with networking? There are a million stable, highbandwith NIC cards out there!

You could go with a streamer device like the one Sholling talked about but I prefer a computer since it is the lowest common denominator; any service available on the web will work with a PC but that is not always the case with a streaming device. Plus the hard disc is useful to store music and movies. I like the mac mini because it is simple and straightforward (I don't want to start a flaming war over the PC/mac thing; I've used both extensively and I've decided to go with macs). Macs have a good build quality and are set up for no-brainer networking. The new mac mini is perfect for HT set-up; it costs $599, http://www.apple.com/macmini/. Just run the hmdi to your av receiver and you are ready to go. Plus you'll need a wireless keyboard; I've been using this from Iogear, http://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Keyboard-Optical-Trackball-GKM581R/dp/B004DJB6HK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1311183013&sr=8-2. The trackball is a bit cheesy (most inexpensive wireless keyboards have some quirks) but it is a good unit and it works well (I also appreciate that the battery can be recharged via usb). If you want something fancier, you could use an ipod touch as a controller. By the way, you do not have to use the hdmi port to run to the AV receiver if you have an older receiver. You could run the hdmi from the mac to the TV and then use the minijack out with a mini toslink cable (mac audio outs can be set up to work either with analog or digital); this is the cable you'll need, http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-27016-Velocity-Toslink-/dp/B0002JFN1A/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311183203&sr=1-2. I rip all my music into apple lossless and then stream it through the house using squeezebox products but you could simply use itunes and play it through your AV receiver. I love the Squeezebox Touch, though. Once you've ripped your music, I don't think you will ever want to go back to a CD player; computer based playback systems are the way to go. Or you could just subscribe to Pandora, MOG or Spotify and never buy another CD (the latter two stream at 320 kbps, Pandora is, I believe, limited to 192 kpbs). You can also use airplay to play music in another room wireless with one of these, http://www.amazon.com/Apple-MB321LL-A-Airport-Express/dp/B0015YJOK2/ref=sr_du_2_map?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1311183654&sr=1-2, which will work with any music system you have (since it has an analog/ditigal out), or with any airplay capable device. If you use the apple airport express to play music wirelessly, it is better to use the digital out, though, as this give a better sound quality. You'll need an inexpensive dac if your 2d music system does not have one. The web browser will play any movies you want to stream (netflix, amazon, hulu, etc.). I have the mac connected via ethernet but it has wireless n built in if you want to go that route. I use the internal drive for movies (at least until I buy a blu ray drive). It really doesn't get much easier than this for movies and music and it's not a bad deal at $599.

 

[sholling]

If the goal is to replace upgrade your AVR then more power to you - I love new toys. On the other hand HDMI switches are small and cheap and what I plan for my system for now. To answer your question about network functionality, IMO it's not a high priority with AVR manufacturers. They see a huge market for MP3 and iTunes/iPhone compatibility and perhaps Pandora because those are common. On the other hand they probably see going beyond those functions as an unnecessary expense at this time. FWIW Denon does claim limited HD FLAC compatibility with some of their products. Onkyo may as well but I'm still feeling burned by their past claims of FLAC friendliness and refuse to trust their claims.

As for devices I was very content with a WDTV Live until I began adding 24 bit FLACs to my collection. The interface is just soooooo much slicker/easier to use than any HTPC (see my Adventures In HTPC Remotes) and adds little to the monthly energy bill. My next step was to try to use the media player functions in my Oppo BDP-93 but those functions are so far still an unsupported beta. The Oppo will play 24bit and multichannel FLACs but requires a DLNA server (or external hard drive) and fully 24bit FLAC compatible DLNA servers are almost as rare as hen's teeth. Most DLNA servers convert 24bit to 16bit on the fly which defeats the whole purpose of a 24bit media player. I personally prefer accessing network shares to DNLA - of course DLNA has the advantage that the kids can't delete your media files but beyond that single advantage I see DLNA as an unnecessary bottle neck.

I'm still using a WDTV Live in my bedroom (for now) because the convenience of a slick interface and seamless compatibility with my Logitech Harmony remote still outweighs it's few disadvantages. FWIW the WDTV Live Plus supports Netflix, Pandora, Mediafly and several others.

I recently added a HTPC in my family room and now that I have enough RAM in it (8GB) and enough memory dedicated to video (2GB) I'm very happy with it. It's not as slick to use as a dedicated media player but it boots fast, does a bit more and it's not an energy hog. I refuse to wait for slow booting HTPCs or pay higher energy bills. I took a similar low energy cost approach when I built my media server. I wanted to try a beta of a 24bit compatible DLNA server or I would have just gone with a RAID5 NAS device. I'm back to using shared folders but I'm very-very happy with my server.

One more thing. In my experience wireless - even the "300Mb/s" flavor of 802.11n isn't fast enough in the real world to reliably play HD video over a network. On the other hand 100Mb/s hard wired Ethernet is fast enough for one device at a time. I highly recommend hard wire with Cat5e or better and gigabit switches if you plan to access a server in another room.

Further reading:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74025
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75075