best loudspeaker for under $1000/pair

C

cmstric

Junior Audioholic
what is the opinions on the best set of loudspeakers for under $1000?

i was at a local audio store the other day and they had the Focal 836v for $1499 and i was thinking i can talk them down to $1200 or so . they sounded amazing and left me wondering where they were hiding the subwoofer.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Speaker selection is so subjective and so personal that there is no "best". Some people prefer a bright sound and gravitate to one brand. Others might like a slightly warm sound and gravitate toward another brand. Others want total neutrality. For some the sound stage and imaging are everything.

What all this verbiage boils down to is that you have two choices. Get out and listen to everything that you can at as many shops as you can and see what floats your boat - just understand that it may sound totally different when you get it home because the room has a huge effect on the sound.

Or you can go by reviews (I recommend Audioholics' Pro Reviews over most) and hope for the best with great bang for the buck internet direct companies (EMP, Aperion, Axiom, Swan, etc). You'll just have to try to read between the lines and make an educated guess about how the reviewer's tastes compare to your own.
 
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GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
Ascend Sierras

These are by far the best I've heard...

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0907/ascend_acoustic_sierra_1.htm
http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi/20070901.htm
http://www.avrev.com/home-theater-loudspeakers/bookshelf-monitor-loudspeakers/ascend-acoustics-sierra-1-monitor-loudspeakers.html
etc.

http://www.audioreview.com/mfr/ascend-acoustics/bookshelf-speakers/sierra-1-reference-monitor/PRD_409581_4290crx.aspx
Summing up, the Sierra-1’s are truly impressive speakers. If you’re a beer budgeteer and wondered if you’d ever be able to afford Grade A sound, the Sierras are your ticket. From one who’s owned high dollar transducers, sold and installed mega buck models like six figure Wilsons and mixed audio in a few production suites, the Sierra-1’s are the real deal – honest to goodness, state-of-the-art, high-end speakers. They uncover a lot of nuance, have a very wide soundstage, can hold together while playing fairly loud in the right size room and, most importantly, do a fantastic job of playing the music much as it was recorded. Like the Amphion Helium series, but over $600 less, the Sierras nailed song after song and were never tiring to listen to. Where the Amphions surpassed was the reproduction of scale and their ability to play louder (in our setting).
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=183328
As far as the Sierra the only weakness I can think of is it goes a little too deep for its size. And with the rear port design you can really load up the bass easily...I think 60hz crossover with a sub is optimal.

As far as speakers...definitely diminishing returns at this point given how complete the Sierras are in their price range...they aren't the best at anything but performs/measures very well in all areas.

I spent more than twice as much on my Ushers compared to the Sierras...they aren't close to being twice as good, maybe 15-20% better. The big cabinet limits resonance to the same or slightly better than the Sierras, not a big difference, but the tradeoff for the regular MDF cabinet is massive weight (one Usher Be-718 weighs as much as a pair of Sierras). The highs extend further and the Usher's are as linear as the CBM-170SE (or even more so) which I like quite a bit, the Sierras do get a little forward with when playing pop music. The bass is more controlled, the driver is a bigger long-throw and doesn't have as much "bass bloom" as the Sierras while having the same bass extension...the larger driver simply has an easier job doing it with less distortion.

There are a lot of speakers that cost more than Sierras that aren't as good, or are marginally better. I thought the Ushers were a worthwhile upgrade but you could get a 3 pairs of Sierras for the price of a pair of Ushers...diminishing returns indeed.
They're not perfect, but damn, amazing for <$1000.
 
C

cmstric

Junior Audioholic

the only problem i see with those is they are bookshelf style and not loudpseakers. so id assume they arent going to have the range of a tower speaker.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
the only problem i see with those is they are bookshelf style and not <strike>loudpseakers</strike> full range towers. so id assume they arent going to have the range of a tower speaker.
Fixed that for you. ;)

I don't have any experience with those bookshelves but in general you run a bookshelf speaker with a subwoofer to handle everything below 80hz or so. Many (but not all) near full range towers go comfortably down to 40hz. That's low enough to cover the full range of all but the deepest bass in music but still not low enough for movies or even some bassy music. You generally won't find a high quality true full range (20-20,000hz) tower in your price range. Even the $2500/pr speakers that I have on order need the help of a subwoofer below 40hz. That's a specialized part of the sound spectrum requiring big drivers in big boxes driven by great big honking amplifiers. :D
 
BudgetHT

BudgetHT

Audioholic
Since you have already heard the Focals and liked the way they sound, they would probably be your best bet. At least you know how they sound vs. buying speakers off the internet that you haven't auditioned(like I did with the Axioms. I sure hope they live up my expectations).
And if you can get them to discount them down to $1200.00 will make it that much better.:D
8 Ohms and 92 dB sensitivity, they should be easy to drive too.
 
GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
the only problem i see with those is they are bookshelf style and not loudpseakers. so id assume they arent going to have the range of a tower speaker.
Fixed that for you. ;)
Right :) Loudspeaker designates 'speakers'. Floorstanders vs bookshelves is what you were hinting at...

Speakers all have compromises, and this is especially true at entry/mid levels. Large floorstanders will proabably have more drivers, but these will be cheaper drivers, the enclosure, again, will be cheaper than a similarly priced bookshelf. To keep things short, at $1000, imho, bookshelf vs floorstander is quality vs quantity. Generalizing, a bookshelf will be smaller, have less bass extension and lower max SPL, but will have better quality components and so should have better sound quality.

In this case, Sierra vs 836, they have both about the same extension, which is around 40hz, but I don't doubt the Chorus will play louder than the Sierras. (Not a problem if you don't want to damage your hearing...) Anyhow, they're not the same price, Sierra is 1/2 the price... But to go back to what I said earlier, I haven't heard a $1000 speaker I preferred to Sierras, and those other I liked all were bookshelves. To get the same sound quality in floorstanders you have to spend quite a bit more than $1000 in my experience.

Take the chorus you mentioned, 836 is around $1500, 807, bookshelf, 600$. If you go the line down, it's like 300 for their bookshelf and 600 for the floorstanders. Getting the higher end model should give you better quality components, and at a fixed price low/mid fi, a bookshelf will be higher quality than a floorstander. Quality vs quantity...

Do you prefer smaller and better quality or larger and bigger cabinet/drivers of lower quality?

But anyhow, that's all generalizations, adding multiple drivers can reduce distortion and in the end better a smaller higher quality driver... You really have to go speaker vs speaker... I'd agree that the Chorus at 1200$ should be a good deal. I like JMLabs myself, Utopias are VERY good, if only they cost much less... Not much experience with the Chorus line though.

Not too long ago heard Dynaudio Excite bookshelves (<$1000) and Focus 220 floorstanders (>$2000)... I was not impressed in the least... Could always check out Era speakers, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, etc etc etc... There's a long list of B&M brands. Make sure you listen to higher end products, even bookshelves, just to get an idea of what high end sounds like, what you could strive for in your $1000 purchase...
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
It's usually best to use subs below 80hz. LFE placement requires more flexibility.

I suggest a bookshelf/ sub arrangement.
 
C

cmstric

Junior Audioholic
well i was debating getting the focals and no sub but sounds like i will still neeed a sub for the real lows. ill take quality any day over quantity. if bookshelfs along side a sub sound better than floorstanders ill take that hands down.

havent heard much about ascend acoustics though.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
well i was debating getting the focals and no sub but sounds like i will still neeed a sub for the real lows. ill take quality any day over quantity. if bookshelfs along side a sub sound better than floorstanders ill take that hands down.

havent heard much about ascend acoustics though.
Ascends use corner bracing throughout the interior so they have a decent response curve. However given the off-axis performance of the Infinity Primus 362 and your budget I suggest you pick up a pair of those.

For the subs. DIY options are much better even if you need to buy the cabinets pre-made. Let me know and I'll be happy to draw up some proposals. A pair of Primus Towers is 300 at Frys. So you'd have 700 for subs. 2 is preferred, but space may only permit 1.
 
GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
Well they're well established as a serious ID (Internet Direct) company. Very often discussed on many forums. But since they're only sold online, pretty much word to mouth vs B&M who have hundreds of dealers to showcase the products. (Going ID, you save on costs, AV dealers usually sell speakers with something like 100% markup, so you bypass this by going direct from mft).

Anyhow, read reviews (and reviews of other speakers too!), but if you want to hear them, if you're very lucky someone will own them and will allow you to demo them (strange if you ask me...), but pretty much all that you can go with, and what others have said about them, ex:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34324 (nice post: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=677565&postcount=68)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849859

But at worst, you'll lose like 50$ of shipping with the 30 day audition at home, don't like them, return them...

Anyway, lots of good choices, but price/performance they're fantastic and really hard to beat imho. Sold a pair of B&M which cost me 2x the price of Ascends after getting Ascends for a 2nd system... But you can definitely get good speakers from B&M, just quite a bit more expensive in my experience.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Well they're well established as a serious ID (Internet Direct) company. Very often discussed on many forums. But since they're only sold online, pretty much word to mouth vs B&M who have hundreds of dealers to showcase the products. (Going ID, you save on costs, AV dealers usually sell speakers with something like 100% markup, so you bypass this by going direct from mft).

Anyhow, read reviews (and reviews of other speakers too!), but if you want to hear them, if you're very lucky someone will own them and will allow you to demo them (strange if you ask me...), but pretty much all that you can go with, and what others have said about them, ex:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34324 (nice post: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=677565&postcount=68)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849859

But at worst, you'll lose like 50$ of shipping with the 30 day audition at home, don't like them, return them...

Anyway, lots of good choices, but price/performance they're fantastic and really hard to beat imho. Sold a pair of B&M which cost me 2x the price of Ascends after getting Ascends for a 2nd system... But you can definitely get good speakers from B&M, just quite a bit more expensive in my experience.
Ascends are nice speakers, but he's looking for towers and his budget for the whole setup is 1k. That really doesn't open him up to the Ascends IMO. Compared to what he's known I'm thinking the Infinities will be great for his wants. If you really want just good sound and don't care about looks than get the Behringer 2030ps. They are much better than their price suggests. The Ascends look better, but have a similar quality sound. I like all 3 speaker types. I just want you to get the best bang for your buck.
 
GirgleMirt

GirgleMirt

Audioholic
Ascends are nice speakers, but he's looking for towers and his budget for the whole setup is 1k. That really doesn't open him up to the Ascends IMO. Compared to what he's known I'm thinking the Infinities will be great for his wants. If you really want just good sound and don't care about looks than get the Behringer 2030ps. They are much better than their price suggests. The Ascends look better, but have a similar quality sound. I like all 3 speaker types. I just want you to get the best bang for your buck.
well i was debating getting the focals and no sub but sounds like i will still neeed a sub for the real lows. ill take quality any day over quantity. if bookshelfs along side a sub sound better than floorstanders ill take that hands down.

havent heard much about ascend acoustics though.
Doesn't seem like he's much opposed to bookshelves. The infinities are a big step down from both Focal and Sierras...

There's no clear answer to which is better, towers vs monitors + sub... If you're buying towers and a sub, then you're buying your bass twice... I'd definitely say that monitor + sub can be cheaper AND have better results. 1000$ for bookshelves and 1000$ for a sub can give you extremely good performance all around. Chances are 2000$ towers wouldn't go as deep with as much authority as a sub, and mids/treble again might not be at the same level as the bookshelf...

Haven't heard the Behringers monitors but yeah going pro audio could be a good solution too, lots of choice there too.

As for sub, for Home Theater it's definitely a plus, music, it's not really necessary as few instruments reach <40hz (probably noticed it with Focals), so both Sierras and Focals can hold their own with 40hz response... But you'll lose on the low bass, which you'll do with pretty much any speaker... Using my Sierras sub-less, and don't feel like I'm missing anything. Worst is that I have a good sub on a 2nd system, which I never bothered to move back to the main system after getting the Sierras which I wanted to try to run fullrange 'for a while'... 40-50hz response wasn't really an issue for me with the other speakers I've owned too... So ymmv.
 
C

cmstric

Junior Audioholic
well i debated to pull the trigger on one of the used sets of ascend sierras but they both sold yesterday and today haha

so maybe ill wait idk.
 
D

davef

Audioholic Intern
Ascends use corner bracing throughout the interior so they have a decent response curve.
Just a minor but important correction... I believe the discussion here is about our Sierra-1 -- which use an advanced system of bracing and joinery throughout the cabinet, including a combination of reinforced mitred lap joints, corner braces and full scale shelf bracing. In fact, the 3/4" shelf brace is also made of layered bamboo :p This cabinet is quite unique and is about as inert as it gets.

Only our CBM-170 and HTM-200 rely on corner bracing only (which is complete overkill for our smallish HTM-200 SE) and our 340 SE use reinforced butt joints + corner bracing + shelf bracing...
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
I liked the Chorus 800 series. I found them to be a much better sounding speaker than the Chorus 700 series and not really worth trying to save some money by going down to the 700 series. Even as much as I like the Era speakers, I think the Chorus 800's would give the Era towers a serious challenge for my dollars.
 
M

Midwesthonky

Audioholic General
I also listened to the Focals and liked them a lot. But they pushed my budget and I really needed a center to replace the old KLH chinese made piece. But man I liked those Focals... But I have the advantage of already owning a sub.

I ended up with Axiom M60 towers and have been very happy with them. I am not able to fully appreciate what they can do because my room acoustics suck. But if I take time to fix the acoustics with other projects still unfinished, my wife would neuter me. That is NOT an acceptable trade-off for better acoustics.

Not any easy choice, but I did love those Focals... so what can you live with? Great towers that you really like and wait for a sub?
 
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