Belkin Power Conditioners, which is better?

[b1gf00t]

Greetings,

I know very little about this subject, but I do know that it is required to protect the expensive equipment playing. I will follow the saying "better safe than sorry". Having that said, I have dedicated around $200 for a surge protector, power conditioner, etc...

I first got myself a Monster, but then I started to realize it might not meet my requirements so I am exchanging that with a different model/brand.

I had my eyes on the below Belkin(s).

Belkin AP30800fc10 PureAV Home Theater Battery Backup with AVR Technology (Black)

OR

Belkin PureAV® PF30 Home Theater Power Console

Help me decide which best would support my setup.

Setup
Samsung 46" LED TV
Onkyo 607
Wharfedale Diamond 10.7 x 2
Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 x 2
Wharfedale Diamond 10 CS
Wharfedale Diamond 10 GX SUB
Linksys Media Extender
XBOX 360
Sat receiver

Please feel free to suggest another brand if you think it will suffice, as long as it meets the budget -+$100.

Thanks for your help in advance.

 

[highfigh]

Put a whole house surge protector at the breaker panel and get a suppressor with UPC for the Sat receiver, XBox and media extender. That should come to about $200 if you get a decent price on the protector at the panel and the Intermatic can be found online for less than $70.

 

[westom]

I first got myself a Monster, but then I started to realize it might not meet my requirements so I am exchanging that with a different model/brand.

I had my eyes on the below Belkin(s).

Point number one. Surge protection is always about where energy dissipates. How does that Monster or Belkin, with hundreds of joules, absorb typically destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Neither even claim that protection in their numeric specs. Don't take my word for it. How do hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doe not even claim protection. It simply let's popular urban myths promote it.

Either that energy is harmlessly absorbed in earth. If permitted inside the building, it will hunt destructively for earth ground via appliances. It is only your choice. Either you earth surges harmlessly where all wires enter the building. Or surge currents find numerous conductive paths inside the building - even through appliances.

Where does Monster or Belkin even discuss this? Where does either protector have the always required and dedicated wire for 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth? Two questions. Any protector that violates either is ineffective.

You want protectors from responsible companies such as General Electric, Intermatic, Leviton, Polyphaser, Siemens, or Square D. The Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Effective protectors also available from every electrical supply house.

No protector is protection. Remember that reference to popular urban myths. Well, do to those myths, the sentence will be hard to understand. No protector provides protection. The effective protector connects surge TO protection. Protection is always the single point earth ground. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Essential to protection is an earth ground that both meets and exceeds post 1990 National Electrical code. Every incoming wire (in every cable) must make the always required short connection to earth. Either directly (cable TV, satellite dish), or via a 'whole house' protector (AC electric, telephone). If any wire violates this 'less than 10 foot' requirement, then household protection is compromised.

View spec numbers for a minimally acceptable 'whole house' protector. A direct lightning strike is typically 20,000 amps. So one 'whole house' protector from responsible companies is rated for at least 50,000 amps. Yes, we earth a 'whole house' protector so that even direct lightning strikes are made irrelevant. So that even the protector is not damaged. Only grossly undersized and ineffective (plug-in) protectors fail. Fail because the naive will then recommend that failed protector.

All appliances contain significant protection. Protection that may be overwhelmed by a rare and destructive surge. So we earth one 'whole house' protector to make that rare surge irrelevant. So that protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed. So that all appliances including the furnace, air conditioner, dish washer, bathroom GFCIs, and the entire home theater are protected.

Telco computers are connected to overhead wires all over town. Are threatened by about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days? Telcos locate no protectors adjacent to electronics. Every incoming wire in every cable connects as short as possible to earth via a 'whole house' protector. To make protection even better, those protectors are something less than 50 meters separated from electronics. Yes, separation increases protection. You do same.

Sentence one: protection is always about where energy dissipates. So that energy is not inside the building hunting for earth destructively via a home theater, you must earth one 'whole house' protector. And upgrade earthing to both meet and exceed post 1990 code. Separation from the appliances mean even better protection. A solution that costs about $1 per protected appliance. The superior solution meets your budget - and is protection for everything. If your home theater needs protection, then so does the furnace.

 

[b1gf00t]

Thanks

Point number one. Surge protection is always about where energy dissipates. How does that Monster or Belkin, with hundreds of joules, absorb typically destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Neither even claim that protection in their numeric specs. Don't take my word for it. How do hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doe not even claim protection. It simply let's popular urban myths promote it.

Either that energy is harmlessly absorbed in earth. If permitted inside the building, it will hunt destructively for earth ground via appliances. It is only your choice. Either you earth surges harmlessly where all wires enter the building. Or surge currents find numerous conductive paths inside the building - even through appliances.

Where does Monster or Belkin even discuss this? Where does either protector have the always required and dedicated wire for 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth? Two questions. Any protector that violates either is ineffective.

You want protectors from responsible companies such as General Electric, Intermatic, Leviton, Polyphaser, Siemens, or Square D. The Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. Effective protectors also available from every electrical supply house.

No protector is protection. Remember that reference to popular urban myths. Well, do to those myths, the sentence will be hard to understand. No protector provides protection. The effective protector connects surge TO protection. Protection is always the single point earth ground. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Essential to protection is an earth ground that both meets and exceeds post 1990 National Electrical code. Every incoming wire (in every cable) must make the always required short connection to earth. Either directly (cable TV, satellite dish), or via a 'whole house' protector (AC electric, telephone). If any wire violates this 'less than 10 foot' requirement, then household protection is compromised.

View spec numbers for a minimally acceptable 'whole house' protector. A direct lightning strike is typically 20,000 amps. So one 'whole house' protector from responsible companies is rated for at least 50,000 amps. Yes, we earth a 'whole house' protector so that even direct lightning strikes are made irrelevant. So that even the protector is not damaged. Only grossly undersized and ineffective (plug-in) protectors fail. Fail because the naive will then recommend that failed protector.

All appliances contain significant protection. Protection that may be overwhelmed by a rare and destructive surge. So we earth one 'whole house' protector to make that rare surge irrelevant. So that protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed. So that all appliances including the furnace, air conditioner, dish washer, bathroom GFCIs, and the entire home theater are protected.

Telco computers are connected to overhead wires all over town. Are threatened by about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days? Telcos locate no protectors adjacent to electronics. Every incoming wire in every cable connects as short as possible to earth via a 'whole house' protector. To make protection even better, those protectors are something less than 50 meters separated from electronics. Yes, separation increases protection. You do same.

Sentence one: protection is always about where energy dissipates. So that energy is not inside the building hunting for earth destructively via a home theater, you must earth one 'whole house' protector. And upgrade earthing to both meet and exceed post 1990 code. Separation from the appliances mean even better protection. A solution that costs about $1 per protected appliance. The superior solution meets your budget - and is protection for everything. If your home theater needs protection, then so does the furnace.

Westom,
I would like to thank you for spending some time writing this informative reply, I really appreciate it. I would also like to add that most probably in my region everything is earthed, but who tests that?

Although, we do not have that much of lightning strikes in my area, nor electrical surges or fluctuations of any kind, it always feel much more reasonable to put your expensive equipment behind protection. That said, surge suppression was one of the features am looking after, another is the power conditioner, and the disconnection of equipment in case of high voltages.

Besides Belkin I have also read about Panamax and I am quite impressed about their features and specifications. Unfortunately, they only run on 120V. Also, they Panamax uses the NEMA inputs while the British type BS 1386. I do not know much about electricity but the BS 1386 has Ground, +ve, and -ve and usually comes fused, so in case of any electrical short the fuse breaks.

My choices are limited.

My question is Do we need to condition the power and protect the equipment, or as you kindly mentioned it is a myth?

Thanks.

 

[westom]

My question is Do we need to condition the power and protect the equipment, or as you kindly mentioned it is a myth?

You did not read what was posted. Reread it. It something is that new, I always reread new material many times due to the facts that never get read the first time.

Never posted was "surge protection is a myth". Read it with greater care. Effective surge protection is necessary so that protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed. Belkin does not even claim to provide surge protection.

How does that Monster or Belkin, with hundreds of joules, absorb typically destructive surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Neither even claim that protection in their numeric specs. Don't take my word for it. How do hundreds of joules absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? It doe not even claim protection. It simply let's popular urban myths promote it.

Challenge is simple. Post the Monster or Belkin number - digit for digit - that claims protecting from each type of surge? Those numbers do not exist. You said those specs are impressive. Good. Post the impressive numbers.

All appliances contain effective protection. Your concern is the rare and destructive surge that can overwhelm internal appliance protection. That comes from lightning and other electrically similar events. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Provide that Belkin or Monster number that discusses that energy.

Where is that energy dissipated? How does that Monster, Belkin, or Panamax stop what three miles of sky could not? If not, then how can it also eliminate the rare and destructive switching transient or when high voltage wires fall onto lower voltage distribtuion?

BS 1386 is irrelevant. That ground - safety ground - is not relevant and is different from earth ground. Read what is relevant: BS 6651. Or read what Belkin, Panamax, et al will not discuss to protect obscene profits:
http://www.telecom-protect-tech.co.uk/tp_lprotect.shtml

Obviously no receptacle has earth ground. How many meters is the length from each appliance, through that protector, through wires in the wall, through the power panel, and down to earth ground. If must be less than 3 meters. Which is why Belkin, Monster, et al will not discuss ground and do not provide those protection numbers. Distance so excessive as to be virtually no earth ground.

See that ground light on some protectors? How they would further confuse you. Earth ground could be completely disconnected and that light would still say ground is OK. It is only reporting safety ground. Your concern is earth ground - which Belkin, Monster, Panamax, et al do not connect to and will not discuss.

 

[Dfredric]

Still Interested in BigFoot's Question

Westom,

Extremely interesting series of posts on power conditioning. I must say that I have read through your posts several times and I think the conclusion I am coming to is that power protection needs to occur at the power panel. If I have this right, i think then BigFoots question remains - is there any value in having further redundancy with power conditioning at the HT-level?

 

[son-yah-tive]

Well, I ordered the Belkin AP30800 you talked about myself for 144.00 on amazon. I fiqured if anything, it will keep the battery power up so my LCYOS Rear Projection T.V LAMP can cool down. For that price, it seemed worth it.

 

[krzywica]

There are a lot of words in this thread.....

 

[highfigh]

There are a lot of words in this thread.....

I've seen more.