beethoven/barenboim No. 9 DVD-A

[Alex2507]

So shoot me for having my appreciation of classical music defined by A Clockwork Orange.

With that out of the way I was interested in discussing the merits of this piece (particularly the 4th movement) being played back in stereo and multi channel formats. I was able to do what I think is a decent enough comparison by listening to the first 10 seconds or so that ends with what I would describe as a violin end note. (Now you can shoot me for not knowing beans about music.) I switched back and forth between the 6 channel input on my rec'r and the CD input (which has L & R analog inputs from a Denon 1920 player) and pressing l<< on my player remote. The same 10 seconds or so of music got played back a handful of times in both formats and I preferred the multi channel.

The reason that I did this to begin with is that for stereo play back I just got through adjusting for room response with a 12 band EQ and a Rives Audio Test CD2. When comparing EQ flat response, Auto Correct and room correction via the Rives disc I preferred the results obtained via the Rives disc. The next step was seeing how that stacked up against the multi channel offering.

Now I'll try to explain why I liked the multi channel better. When I was about 4 years old I got separated from my parents in a cathedral in Vienna during midnight mass. I knew I was alone and that they would eventually find me if I stayed put but in the meantime the choir was singing. I understood that the sounds were coming from humans (it took a little while to locate them) but also understood that I might never hear anything like that ever again the same way I had never heard anything like that before. I was right about that up until not long ago when I got this player, this piece and the know how to set it all up. The singing comes from everywhere (like from heaven above) and it's full immersion. Somehow stereo doesn't do that for me.

Differing opinions are welcome. I would like to hear the pro stereo argument as well. BTW this recording has TELDEC on the cover. They include a sample of Cal Orf's Carmina Burana / Zubin Mehta that sounded good as well. I'm kind of itching to buy that too.

Alex

 

[jostenmeat]

Alex, you make me regret having foregone m-ch music. I was talked out of the possibility unfortunately, with the smaller collection of artists/titles that I might enjoy, and with the greater costs involved.

However, I don't think you will find anyone will say that stereo is better. Stereo has greater limitations that m-ch does not have to suffer.

Full immersion must be fun. However, I dunno, when I listen to a live orchestra, its still coming from up front. Not all around like in a cathedral, and that's probably why you rarely see orchestras in cathedrals: too live, acoustically.

M-ch ideas I've always been curious about, but am pretty sure will never, ever happen:

Having a multi voiced fugue, one "voice" or line dedicated per channel, whether its 3 voice, 4, 5, (6??). An iea I read in the Glenn Gould reader, and something the author never got around to trying, though wanting to.

A 4-ch recording, but only for Center, Two Side surrounds, and one rear. What for? Some Gesualdo multi choir stuff. Back then, in places like San Marcos cathedral, he might have been the first to actually do "surround sound". He placed a choir in each of the four ends of the cathedral (which is shaped like a cross), and he wrote music even with time delays in mind. Pretty cool. I never bought a recording, since I figured it just wouldn't be the same, but maybe I should've.

*No wonder everyone believed in God. Can you imagine toiling in the fields all day, no fridge, no lights, and walking into a huge beautiful cathedral with glorious music in live surround coming from all four sides?

 

[Alex2507]

The full immersion description fits the cathedral experience better. With this Teldec recording I think a term like ambient presence might be a better choice. The lack of that in stereo was tough for me to pick up on until I figured out how to repeat that 10 second passage almost instantly. There was still a sound stage with the DVD-A. I think Teldec might be one of the good guys in the MC music scene. Not sure though.

The cost of the players has really dropped. I saw j_garcia sell his Oppo for $125 I think and players like mine can be had for around the same on eBay. It also plays SACD also like the Oppo. The wire from BJC might be $100 and much less at Monoprice. There's a ton of classical music out on those formats FWIU.

After skimming the old post on SACD that recently got brought back I thought the advantages of SACD were being brought into question. I'll have to take a better look at that long @ss thread.

 

[jostenmeat]

The full immersion description fits the cathedral experience better. With this Teldec recording I think a term like ambient presence might be a better choice. The lack of that in stereo was tough for me to pick up on until I figured out how to repeat that 10 second passage almost instantly. There was still a sound stage with the DVD-A. I think Teldec might be one of the good guys in the MC music scene. Not sure though.

The cost of the players has really dropped. I saw j_garcia sell his Oppo for $125 I think and players like mine can be had for around the same on eBay. It also plays SACD also like the Oppo. The wire from BJC might be $100 and much less at Monoprice. There's a ton of classical music out on those formats FWIU.

After skimming the old post on SACD that recently got brought back I thought the advantages of SACD were being brought into question. I'll have to take a better look at that long @ss thread.

I think the advantages thing you speak of is regarding resolution. Some SACDs are 2-ch, right? I was just talking about 2 ch vs 5 ch.

Yeah, but the costs of doing m-ch right... well, to do HT right as well I suppose, would be all matching all around, with three identical speakers up front. Correct?

Maybe one day, I can do three identical towers, sell off my stereo stuff, and just listen to music in my HT rig. Id need to do an AT screen setup first of all. That's not going to happen for a very long time though.

I've browsed SACD collections before. There weren't enough artists that I was interested in at the time. Perhaps I didn't search hard enough. I think I own only one hybrid, IIRC, being Mahler #7 with MTT/SF. My friend owns Monk's Brilliant Corners as SACD. These are the only two hybrids I've ever listened to. Anyways, Im glad you're enjoying the rig!

 

[3db]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment

I don't have multichannel music either, just suround sound for movie DVDs

My experience is somewhat different than yours....I've attended quite a few symphonies at our local arts center. The hall is dedicated to this and is acoustically treated. To me, the music is always up front and never surrounding me or arriving from different locations at different times. I guess thats why I prefer a good two channel over multichannel music system.

 

[Alex2507]

3dB,

Your experience is completely different than mine. I haven't attended anything at all. That full immersion remark is haunting me now. There is still a sound stage up front. To actually know that the surrounds are on you have to get very close to them. Yet at the listening position there is a noticable subjective benefit to having the 5 channels on with that one piece. It's a lot of work trying to figure out what you like and why you like it. Another thing that may be playing into your way of thinking is that your speakers and room are probably better than mine.

j garcia mentioned that whether he prefered 2 or 5 channel playback depended on the mix on the disc. What is your impression of concert DVD's recorded in 5.1 DD? Do you prefer them in stereo also?