Been out of the loop for a while need recommendations

[1kwik72]

I haven't been hitting these forums since I put my HT together several years back (matter of fact I had to re-register ) I am have been kicking around the idea of getting a blu-ray player latley and need to get up to speed on what to look for. I haven't really even set a budget as I have seen stuff from dirt cheep to pretty outrageous. I did a couple searches and really only came up with specific models people either like or disliked. While I appreciate that I would like to make sure I get something that will work well with what I have. Currenty everything of mine is run through my Yamaha RX-V1400 via component video. My TV does 480i 480p and 1080i it has an HDMI input but I don't currently utilize it. The questions I have are. Will I not get the best performance if I don't use the HDMI? I see a lot of stuff now days is 1080P which my TV doesnt support do most players do 1080i? What are the potential issues going to HDMI I have heard there have been compatabillity problems if so what do I watch out for? What features are a must have vs could live without? Thanks in advance my complete current setup is listed below

Craig


Reciever: Yamaha RX-V1400
HDTV: Mitsubishi 65" WS-65313
Main speakers: Klipsch RF-62
Subwoofer: B & W ASW600
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-10
Rear surrounds: Klipsch RB-61
Center channel: Klipsch RC-62
DVD player: Yamaha DVD S540
DirectV reciever: HDDVR HR20-700

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

I haven't been hitting these forums since I put my HT together several years back (matter of fact I had to re-register ) I am have been kicking around the idea of getting a blu-ray player latley and need to get up to speed on what to look for. I haven't really even set a budget as I have seen stuff from dirt cheep to pretty outrageous. I did a couple searches and really only came up with specific models people either like or disliked. While I appreciate that I would like to make sure I get something that will work well with what I have. Currenty everything of mine is run through my Yamaha RX-V1400 via component video. My TV does 480i 480p and 1080i it has an HDMI input but I don't currently utilize it. The questions I have are. Will I not get the best performance if I don't use the HDMI? I see a lot of stuff now days is 1080P which my TV doesnt support do most players do 1080i? What are the potential issues going to HDMI I have heard there have been compatabillity problems if so what do I watch out for? What features are a must have vs could live without? Thanks in advance my complete current setup is listed below

Craig


Reciever: Yamaha RX-V1400
HDTV: Mitsubishi 65" WS-65313
Main speakers: Klipsch RF-62
Subwoofer: B & W ASW600
Surrounds: Klipsch RS-10
Rear surrounds: Klipsch RB-61
Center channel: Klipsch RC-62
DVD player: Yamaha DVD S540
DirectV reciever: HDDVR HR20-700

Niiice.....you and I have traveled down a similar path!!

I think we both have a very similar 'mature' 65" TV BTW....I plan to keep my 65" Mitsu until one of two things happens....1. the picture goes bad, or 2....it goes up in smoke. I also have Klipsch Ref speakers....the same center, but the rest are different versions. I also have a Yamaha receiver..albeit different.

Here's the deal....YES......get a BD player!! They are so cheap now, it's crazy not to upgrade if you like to watch movies. I'm guessing your receiver does not support HDMI and the new HD-audio formats? For now...no problem. Connect the BD player directly to the TV via HDMI, by doing so, it will upscale DVD's too. (only by connecting to the TV via HDMI will it upscale std-DVDs) During initial setup, you will set the BD player output to match that of your display. 1080p is best, but 1080i is still pretty darned good!!

If your receiver doesn't have HDMI, you'll need to connect the BD player audio to your receiver via optical or coax.....you won't be able to enjoy DTS-MA or DolbyTrueHD, but it will still sound the same as what you are used to.

Your next upgrade? A HDMI receiver that can pass the new HD-Audio formats......there's always one more thing, right?

 

[adwilk]

You should get a bluRay player and you could use HDMI to hook up to your TV. It will upscale standard DVD's like 'Nut said.

HOWEVER, get a bluray player with a built in decoder to send an analog signal to your multichannel inputs on the back of your receiver to take advantage of the newer codecs.

If it fits in the budget, I'd get this...

 

[1kwik72]

Well after looking at my setup a bit closer and doing some more reading on the on HDMI standards and stuff I figured out that my TV doesn't have a HDMI input. It does have a DVI input but I am a bit fuzzy on weather that would do me any good. From what I have read it sounds like being able to use component video is going to be phased out. I really didnt want to buy a new TV. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Craig

 

[njedpx3]

welcome Back

Do a search there are a couple of threads going on right now about best BD under $200. There is a Panasonic BD60K for as low as $130 ( Black Friday; may be a little higher). And if you have NetFlix there are some that can stream NetFlix movies; Sony has one for $199.

If you connect you BD player via component for video , you will get the same PQ as HDMI. Then you connect audio separately with two RCA cables.

Peace and Good Luck!

Forest Man

 

[njedpx3]

Well after looking at my setup a bit closer and doing some more reading on the on HDMI standards and stuff I figured out that my TV doesn't have a HDMI input. It does have a DVI input but I am a bit fuzzy on weather that would do me any good. From what I have read it sounds like being able to use component video is going to be phased out. I really didnt want to buy a new TV. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Craig

DVI is the video part of HDMI. You could use HDMI cable with an adapter like this for $4.19 from monoprice. http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041902&p_id=2029&seq=1&format=2

Good Luck!

Forest Man

 

[jostenmeat]

Well after looking at my setup a bit closer and doing some more reading on the on HDMI standards and stuff I figured out that my TV doesn't have a HDMI input. It does have a DVI input but I am a bit fuzzy on weather that would do me any good. From what I have read it sounds like being able to use component video is going to be phased out. I really didnt want to buy a new TV. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Craig

All you need for video is a HDMI/DVI cable. Most likely, $5 will do.

If you have the mch analogs, ok nm I just looked, you DO have them for 5.1, and if you're happy with your DVD playback, I'd recommend a Panasonic BD80.

If you want netflix, or slightly superior DVD playback in a bluray player, you will need to pony up more money. Whether that be a Pioneer, Samsung, Oppo, etc. Otherwise, for pure bd playback, the Pana is all you need. My guess is ~$170.

If you don't want to "hassle" with the mch analogs, and lossy mch via S/PDIF is fine, then save roughly $50 by getting the Pana BD60.

ok, I see I got beat to it by the Forest Dood.

 

[1kwik72]

Ok let me see if I got this right. I can get an adapter to go from HDMI to DVI to pass the video directly from the player to my TV and therefore should be able to upscale regular DVDs to 1080i in addition to watching Blu-ray in the same resolution correct? Now on the audio side I pulled out the manual on my reciever and it looks like I have analog multi channel inputs either 6ch or 8ch. It wasn't real clear other than it was for using a separate sound processor in this case a Blu-ray player correct? So if I use an 8ch input will I be able to enjoy all the newer sound formats? like I said I have been out of the loop for a while. When I put my theater together 7.1 was just starting to become popular so of course I had to set mine up that way I havent really tweaked it much since.
Assuming what I have said above is correct I have just a couple more questions. After reading a thread here about HDMI vs component and where they plan on going with it (copyright protection wise) any forseable problems with the adapter down the road? From a couple articles I read it looked like any kind of analog connection may be forced into obsolecence to discourage copying. I don't know enough about the differences in DVI vs HDMI to know if it would be a problem. Secondly I ran across a thread were someone had mentioned macros on their remote specifically with a Yamaha reciever. I skimmed the advanced remote section in the manual and didn't really see what I was looking for. I have to think there will be some way once I get it all set up to have it switch inputs on the TV and go to the multi channel input on the reciever automatically when I select the blue ray player correct? Anyone have any experience in doing that? Its been at least 5 years since I had to program the remote Thanks guys for the input you have all been a big help so far. Once I get a few more posts I will post up some pictures of my setup in the gallery section

Craig

 

[jostenmeat]

You asked a lot of questions, and are kind of all over the map. When you do that, I think that paragraphing your post is REQUIRED. Split the topics and/or individual questions into separate paragraphs.

This is not just for me, but for you as well. The odds of someone reading this, who indeed might be able to help you, will be tremendously improved.

It takes effort, and a decent short term memory to try and address your post.

Let's see if I can remember what the heck you asked (which DID take effort to even read):



I don't know about analog and DVI, but AFAIK, DVI is just fine for the foreseeable future, as long as only having video there is ok.

Regarding remote programming, it's something YOU have to do. (Not that you ever mentioned what your remote model was). If you think someone is going to sit here, step by step, in programming every button for you, you have another thing coming.

Like I ALREADY said, it appears you only have 5.1 (which is 6 channels; the .1 is the discrete channel for LFE).

Therefore, with lossless mch tracks (such as TrueHD, DTS-MA, mch PCM), you will be limited to 5.1, with no use of rear surrounds.

The other issue with mch analogs is that you are relegated to the bass mgmt capabilities of the BDP itself.

Yes, you will obtain the best video you can produce, while getting the above tracks, with the stated caveat.

If, for any reason, you like to switch the audio output choice (HDMI vs optical vs red/white analogs) from your bluray player, I would further recommend Panasonic. I don't know about how other brands work, but Sony has historically made it a pain as they didn't shotgun the output (at least that's the case with s350 and fat PS3), and you'd have to delve into the menu to choose, say, HDMI or optical. The Pana's, it's just fine.

Wow, I feel like I was all over the place, and actually typed the above paragraphs out of order, placing them in between. Let's see how it looks. . . before I reread it (edit: yep, I DEFINITELY edited it multiple times):

Once again, please make your posts much more intelligible. Thank you for considering our position.

 

[1kwik72]

First off as mentioned above I appologise for being all over the map and not separating things out better. I kind of tend to ramble its just how I get when I dive into this kind of stuff.

Thanks for the answer on DVI being fine for the forseable future that gives me at least a little piece of mind.

On the remote issue I probably could have phrased it better and or searched a little more before posting. I use the Yamaha reciever remote for everything except my satalite reciever. I wasn't asking for someone to hold my hand and program everything for me. However after skimming the manual again and searching online I couldn't figure out if it was capable of switching the input on the TV when selecting the BD player input.

I do have it set up as 7.1 not 5.1 (7 individual speaker channels plus the sub) the manual is a little vauge on the multichannel input but it does state you can run either 6 or 8 channels in I am assuming 5+LFE and 7+LFE respectivley. If I am thinking about this wrong or mistaken please enlighten me So if that is correct I should be able to listen to the newer codecs using the BD player as the processor and utilizing its bass managment correct?

Thanks again I will try to make my posts clearer in the future

Craig

 

[jostenmeat]

Thanks for the answer on DVI being fine for the forseable future that gives me at least a little piece of mind.

Thank you. That's just as far as I know. Don't take that as a fact quite yet. Personally, I wouldn't worry about it.

I do have it set up as 7.1 not 5.1 (7 individual speaker channels plus the sub) the manual is a little vauge on the multichannel input but it does state you can run either 6 or 8 channels in I am assuming 5+LFE and 7+LFE respectivley. If I am thinking about this wrong or mistaken please enlighten me So if that is correct I should be able to listen to the newer codecs using the BD player as the processor and utilizing its bass managment correct?

Interesting, I now see what you are talking about, the "presence channels", which can be output to an amplifier. The question becomes, can the receiver produce/matrix the rears/presence from not only just optical or dig coax, but the MCH INPUTS on the bottom left of this pic linked at the bottom of my post here (which is why I thought 5.1)?

As far as I have seen, I've never heard of one that can matrix rears from mch analogs, but you have to believe me when I say there is a whole lot I do not know.

http://www.yamaha.com/YECDealerMedia/adgraphs/products/RXV1400_back.jpg

Gotta run! good luck, I'll check back in again at some point.

 

[1kwik72]

Interesting, I now see what you are talking about, the "presence channels", which can be output to an amplifier. The question becomes, can the receiver produce/matrix the rears/presence from not only just optical or dig coax, but the MCH INPUTS on the bottom left of this pic linked at the bottom of my post here (which is why I thought 5.1)?

As far as I have seen, I've never heard of one that can matrix rears from mch analogs, but you have to believe me when I say there is a whole lot I do not know.

http://www.yamaha.com/YECDealerMedia/adgraphs/products/RXV1400_back.jpg

Gotta run! good luck, I'll check back in again at some point.

This is where the manual is a bit confusing. From what I gather I can select via OSD menu either 6ch or 8ch multi channel input. If you select 8ch then they reassign 2 of the inputs from something else (cant remember & I dont have the manual in front of me right now) The presence speakers dont have anything to do with it. Where it isnt clear is how all 8 channels are routed out. If I get a chance I will copy and paste the multi channel input instructions from the manual. its only about a paragraph long.

Craig

 

[jostenmeat]

This is where the manual is a bit confusing. From what I gather I can select via OSD menu either 6ch or 8ch multi channel input. If you select 8ch then they reassign 2 of the inputs from something else (cant remember & I dont have the manual in front of me right now) The presence speakers dont have anything to do with it. Where it isnt clear is how all 8 channels are routed out. If I get a chance I will copy and paste the multi channel input instructions from the manual. its only about a paragraph long.

Craig

Ok, I took a quick gander at the manual PDF here:
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/re/RX-V1400_e_kai2.pdf

I didn't see what you were talking about. Want to give us a specific page to look at?

The channels, however many the receiver might give you (depending), is of course through the speaker terminals. Right? What am I misunderstanding?

I don't understand how "the presence channels don't have anything to do with it". I am presuming their nomenclature choice of "presence" equals "rears", in Yamaha's world.

All you can do, to get lossless MCH, is to use the mch analog inputs on the bottom left. You will have speakers connected to terminals as you always do.

I'm pretty certain all you will ever get is 5.1 for those tracks that are fed via mch analogs.

Once you show us what you are talking about, where you can actually plug in 7.1 mch analogs, then you will obtain 7.1, BUT ONLY WHEN THE HT TRACK IS NATIVELY in 7.1.

For I've never heard of a player that can internally matrix audio for rears. Therefore, if the lossless mch track is in 5.1, that's all you will get.

 

[1kwik72]

Ok, I took a quick gander at the manual PDF here:
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/re/RX-V1400_e_kai2.pdf

I didn't see what you were talking about. Want to give us a specific page to look at?

The channels, however many the receiver might give you (depending), is of course through the speaker terminals. Right? What am I misunderstanding?

I don't understand how "the presence channels don't have anything to do with it". I am presuming their nomenclature choice of "presence" equals "rears", in Yamaha's world.

All you can do, to get lossless MCH, is to use the mch analog inputs on the bottom left. You will have speakers connected to terminals as you always do.

I'm pretty certain all you will ever get is 5.1 for those tracks that are fed via mch analogs.

Once you show us what you are talking about, where you can actually plug in 7.1 mch analogs, then you will obtain 7.1, BUT ONLY WHEN THE HT TRACK IS NATIVELY in 7.1.

For I've never heard of a player that can internally matrix audio for rears. Therefore, if the lossless mch track is in 5.1, that's all you will get.

Ok let me try and get us both on the same page. If you look on page 13 of the manual it shows the speaker connections and has a small box at the bottom that explains the "presence" speaker operation. I do not have any presence speakers hooked up. I do however have surround back speakers hooked up in addition to the other 5.1 for a total of 7.1 (only operational when DD EX or DTS ES decoder is turned on and when the media is encoded with those formats) If my understanding is correctly PLIIx will also output to all 7 speaker channels and the sub but it is "upconverted" if you will from a DD source. That is how I have the system currently hooked up.

On page 17 it describes the multi channel input and how if you select 8ch you can use the "EXT. INPUT FRONT" jacks along with the 6 Multi channel in jacks for 8 discrete chanels of input. If I understand it correctly the reciever then basically becomes a passive amp for each channel. As no additional processing or sound feilds are selectable at that point.

Here is where I am assuming how the multi chan input works. Lets assume I buy an Oppo BDP-83. The external decoder/processor in this case would be the Oppo it decodes whatever you are watching and outputs it over 8 separate analog jacks correct? This is assuming the media is encoded with a sound format that supports all the channels. If the media has a lower IE 5.1 format then the rear surrond speakers will be non functional similar to the way my system is currently setup with SD DVDs correct? I havent read all the specs on the Oppo to know what kind of processing/matrixing it is capable of but I do understand it will process all the latest codecs.

Am I understanding it correctly or am I missing something?

Thanks for all the info.
Craig

 

[1kwik72]

Pulled this from the Oppo specs. concerning audio.

High Fidelity Audio:


Dolby® TrueHD - Dolby TrueHD delivers lossless studio master quality audio designed specifically for high definition entertainment. The BDP-83 supports bit-stream output of Dolby TrueHD via its HDMI 1.3 output. It can also internally decode Dolby TrueHD into LPCM and output via HDMI or the 7.1ch analog audio output terminals. (Dolby Digital and Dolby Digital Plus audio formats are also supported.).

DTS-HD Master Audio™ - DTS-HD Master Audio delivers an auditory experience that matches the lifelike images of high-definition video with up to 7.1 channels that are bit-for-bit identical to the studio master. The BDP-83 supports bit-stream output of DTS-HD Master Audio. It can also internally decode DTS-HD Master Audio and output via HDMI or the 7.1ch analog audio output terminals. (DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS Digital Surround are also supported.)

7.1-Channel Analog Output - Individual analog 7.1-channel surround outputs are ideal to connect to a 7.1-channel or 5.1-channel surround sound system. The BDP-83 delivers an incredible sound stage and an immersive surround experience.

Dedicated Stereo Output - The BDP-83 features a dedicated 2-channel analog output with specially optimized Digital-to-Analog Converters and output driving stage.

Digital Optical and Coaxial Outputs - For simple and easy connection to more traditional A/V receivers, the BDP-83 features both optical and coaxial outputs for digital audio.

 

[jostenmeat]

Ok let me try and get us both on the same page. If you look on page 13 of the manual it shows the speaker connections and has a small box at the bottom that explains the "presence" speaker operation. I do not have any presence speakers hooked up. I do however have surround back speakers hooked up in addition to the other 5.1 for a total of 7.1 (only operational when DD EX or DTS ES decoder is turned on and when the media is encoded with those formats) If my understanding is correctly PLIIx will also output to all 7 speaker channels and the sub but it is "upconverted" if you will from a DD source. That is how I have the system currently hooked up.

On page 17 it describes the multi channel input and how if you select 8ch you can use the "EXT. INPUT FRONT" jacks along with the 6 Multi channel in jacks for 8 discrete chanels of input. If I understand it correctly the reciever then basically becomes a passive amp for each channel. As no additional processing or sound feilds are selectable at that point.

Ah, thanks for clearing up my confusion.

Here is where I am assuming how the multi chan input works. Lets assume I buy an Oppo BDP-83. The external decoder/processor in this case would be the Oppo it decodes whatever you are watching and outputs it over 8 separate analog jacks correct? This is assuming the media is encoded with a sound format that supports all the channels. If the media has a lower IE 5.1 format then the rear surrond speakers will be non functional similar to the way my system is currently setup with SD DVDs correct? I havent read all the specs on the Oppo to know what kind of processing/matrixing it is capable of but I do understand it will process all the latest codecs.

Am I understanding it correctly or am I missing something?

Thanks for all the info.
Craig

You nailed it. As fine of a player as it is, I highly doubt the Oppo has the ability to internally matrix.

My question to you now is where are the 7th and 8th mch analog connections? Ok, nm, I reread your post, and my confusion stems from the PDF's page numbering for your page 17 is actually page 21 on the PDF. A-ha!

That is SO weird that for 8ch, the rear surround outputs are now routed to the front speaker jacks. Weird. Moseys along to "page" 55 . . . .

Ok, now I understand clearly the reasoning for routing the fronts to one of the "2 ch" analog inputs, for assigning purposes.

Heck 1kwik72, you didn't even need me! hehe, good job, you got it.

Now, go order your bluray player already.

 

[1kwik72]

Ah, thanks for clearing up my confusion.



You nailed it. As fine of a player as it is, I highly doubt the Oppo has the ability to internally matrix.

My question to you now is where are the 7th and 8th mch analog connections? Ok, nm, I reread your post, and my confusion stems from the PDF's page numbering for your page 17 is actually page 21 on the PDF. A-ha!

That is SO weird that for 8ch, the rear surround outputs are now routed to the front speaker jacks. Weird. Moseys along to "page" 55 . . . .

Ok, now I understand clearly the reasoning for routing the fronts to one of the "2 ch" analog inputs, for assigning purposes.

Heck 1kwik72, you didn't even need me! hehe, good job, you got it.

Now, go order your bluray player already.

Yeah once the HDMI/DVI issue was cleared up I thought I had it figgured out right, I just started second guessing myself.

Thanks for the input if anything it made me understand a little bit better how this is all going to work out.

I would love to order one up today but alas my other hobby/addiction the race car needs a few thousand bucks worth of winter maintenance. Once I get that done I will be picking one up though.

I did post some pictures up of my setup. I am sure there are things that are "wrong" as far as ideal setups go but the wife my little girl and I all enjoy it.
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=661625#post661625

Thanks
Craig

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

Well after looking at my setup a bit closer and doing some more reading on the on HDMI standards and stuff I figured out that my TV doesn't have a HDMI input. It does have a DVI input but I am a bit fuzzy on weather that would do me any good. From what I have read it sounds like being able to use component video is going to be phased out. I really didnt want to buy a new TV. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Craig

Buy a DVI-HDMI adaptor to make your TV/BD connection and your BD player will still upscale. (5-20 bucks depending on where you shop) If you're not into adaptors, you can always buy a cable with HDMI at one end, and DVI at the other. My 2 cents...buy the adaptor rather than an entirely new cable.

My TV is DVI too.....LOL

This connection will not transmit sound to the TV, but who cares...that is what surround sound is for!! It will allow you to connect your HDMI BD player to your TV.... You can always use component cables for the DVR/SAT/or cable connection until you get a receiver with HDMI.

 

[Buckeye_Nut]

sorry...I see the questions have already been answered...


HAH...... I looked at your HT pics.


Something looks strangely familar...

Can you guess what it is?