BD analog outs?

[ahblaza]

Hello all,
I have my panny DMP-BD85 player hooked up from the player's preouts to
a legacy onkyo. What signal am I sending to the receiver, bitstream or PCM? I'm Also waiting for my sub to arrive so I'm a running a 5.0 setup. Right now I can select speakers and size in the player, and that seems to be all I can do in the player. Can this be because I have sub as no? I can also go in my receiver setup and select speaker levels. Using the analog preouts, will all speaker levels be the same dB, and will I have to add 10dB boost to the sub when I integrate it in the setup, I remember reading when using analog preouts you have to set the sub with 10dB boost, using HDMI or digital for audio this 10dB boost is autmatically added by the receiver, correct me I am am wrong. I'll be getting my sub this week and want to be ready to integrate it into my system without getting a migrane headache. Thanks guys for listening, I need help here, maybe someone has experience using their BD player via analog outs.
Best regards....Jeff

 

[dkane360]

I haven't used the panny bd player, but i briefly used the 7.1 analog outs from my pioneer. You aren't sending out PCM or bitsream audio through the analogs. Your bluray player is doing all of the decoding and just sending it as an analog signal. Hopefully someone with experience on panny blu-ray players can chime in with the specifics of how you need it set up. Mine was never properly level matched, because I knew I was getting new equipment soon and it wasn't worth the hassle.

 

[zieglj01]

Hello all,
I have my panny DMP-BD85 player hooked up from the player's preouts to
a legacy onkyo. What signal am I sending to the receiver, bitstream or PCM? I'm Also waiting for my sub to arrive so I'm a running a 5.0 setup. Right now I can select speakers and size in the player, and that seems to be all I can do in the player. Can this be because I have sub as no? I can also go in my receiver setup and select speaker levels. Using the analog preouts, will all speaker levels be the same dB, and will I have to add 10dB boost to the sub when I integrate it in the setup, I remember reading when using analog preouts you have to set the sub with 10dB boost, using HDMI or digital for audio this 10dB boost is autmatically added by the receiver, correct me I am am wrong. I'll be getting my sub this week and want to be ready to integrate it into my system without getting a migrane headache. Thanks guys for listening, I need help here, maybe someone has experience using their BD player via analog outs.
Best regards....Jeff

Do not add a 10db boost to the sub untill you test the sub. While the
sub is No - you can not do any more. You can still play with the 5
speakers in the Pansonic, using test tones to adjust the db of the
speakers. I can not speak for receivers automatically adding a 10db
boost to the subwoofer.

 

[j_garcia]

Basically, since all players are different, you won't know until you try it as to whether or not you will have to do the +10dB offset as mentioned. Some players have this capability and others do not. I have owned 2 Panny BD players so far, but neither are internally decoding, so I can't see in the menu if they have a setting like the Denon's did, or if you have to do it in the speaker setup. On my Oppo, I have to do this, but I am able to set this on the receiver side and leave the player at 0.

 

[ahblaza]

Basically, since all players are different, you won't know until you try it as to whether or not you will have to do the +10dB offset as mentioned. Some players have this capability and others do not. I have owned 2 Panny BD players so far, but neither are internally decoding, so I can't see in the menu if they have a setting like the Denon's did, or if you have to do it in the speaker setup. On my Oppo, I have to do this, but I am able to set this on the receiver side and leave the player at 0.

I will wait as you say John until I get my sub setup and calibrated, and then I will go into player's menu and see what if anything can be done, all I can do now is select speaker presence and size and channel balance. Thanks
Jeff

 

[passionsoul]

5.1 analog out into legacy receiver

i am trying to listen to lossless audio thru my legacy receiver(NAD 773)

i have samsung 2550 blu ray player. i have rca cables to connect to my 5.1 analog inputs on my receiver. the blu ray player has internal decoders for lossless audio . my video is going out HDMI . can this be done ?

 

[TLS Guy]

I looked in your instruction manual: -

You can set the optimum multi-channel surround sound
for your speakers from this unit when the settings cannot be
adjusted from a connected amplifier/receiver with AUDIO
OUT terminals.
Select “2ch (Downmix) + 5.1ch” or “7.1ch” and press [OK],
and then set the following options.
– Speaker presence and size ( )
– Delay time ( )
– Channel balance ( )
To finish the speaker setting
Press [3, 4, 2, 1] to select “Complete” and press [OK].

So you can set everything you need.

You are sending an analog signal to your player.

You should not have to boost the LFE channel, that is done by Hollywood. they put a 10 to 20 db boost on the effects channel, or I should say can, and they usually do.

 

[j_garcia]

You should not have to boost the LFE channel, that is done by Hollywood. they put a 10 to 20 db boost on the effects channel, or I should say can, and they usually do.

The +10dB offset is not in the signal itself, it is added during the decode by the receiver and for whatever reason, many internally decoding players do NOT do this automatically. Denon recognized this early on and added an option that adds this only for the analog outs, but a large percentage of players out don't have this, including the early Denons (my 2900 did not have it, but my 2200 did).

 

[TLS Guy]

The +10dB offset is not in the signal itself, it is added during the decode by the receiver and for whatever reason, many internally decoding players do NOT do this automatically. Denon recognized this early on and added an option that adds this only for the analog outs, but a large percentage of players out don't have this, including the early Denons (my 2900 did not have it, but my 2200 did).

I know, but it is a flag in the recording that gives the boost just during explosions etc. If you boost the sub 10db it will be boosted all the time, but not what is required.

I did not realize that some players do not detect the flag.

I looked at using analog outs, but decided against it for lots of reasons, and replaced my pre/pro. That was a good decision.

 

[ahblaza]

I looked in your instruction manual: -

You can set the optimum multi-channel surround sound
for your speakers from this unit when the settings cannot be
adjusted from a connected amplifier/receiver with AUDIO
OUT terminals.
Select “2ch (Downmix) + 5.1ch” or “7.1ch” and press [OK],
and then set the following options.
– Speaker presence and size ( )
– Delay time ( )
– Channel balance ( )
To finish the speaker setting
Press [3, 4, 2, 1] to select “Complete” and press [OK].

So you can set everything you need.

You are sending an analog signal to your player.

You should not have to boost the LFE channel, that is done by Hollywood. they put a 10 to 20 db boost on the effects channel, or I should say can, and they usually do.

Hello, in that setup menu before I got my sub I selected speaker presence and size with no sub and ran the test tone option, as far as adjusting the dB levels of individual speakers I was only able to lower the levels, no +dB only 0 dB or -dB, which I found to be odd, I left all levels at 0 and used the Panny 85 player with no sub. In the MCH mode in receiver I could not run any test tones with the receiver, so I just used the speaker xover and each speaker levels that I had selected in my original calibration with the SPL meter and sound quality was very good without sub. I have since added a sub in the BD player's 2 channel + 5.1 or 7.1 analog setup. What happened next was even more baffling, I ran the test tone generator in the player's menu and was still unable to increase the dB levels only -dB and it skipped the sub all together, it was not recognized, no xover setting either. I contacted Panasonic and this it what they said when I told them what was happeninguring the speaker test there will be no audio from the sub nor would you be able to increase the decibel of the individual speakers, this is normal, this is not a malfunction of the unit (DMP-BD85) as thats how the unit was designed, thank you for contacting Panasonic, end quote. In the MCH setting of my receiver I was able to adjust speaker levels, I just used the levels that I had previously set on the original calibration as test tones are not available in MCH operation. I have not tried playing a BD yet since integrating the sub. In the decoder section of the receiver's MCH option there is subwoofer sensitity adjustment, 0db, +5dB +10dB and +15dB, this option is only available in the MCH menu. I'm assuming since the player has no sub options except it's presence that I would have to add a LFE boost to the sub in the receiver's MCH subwoofer sensitivity option, what do you think? As far as the 2 channel downmix +5.1 and 7.1 analog setting, I'm using a 5.1 setup currently and chose the 7.1 option and selected no back surrounds in the presence option, right or wrong, your thoughts. Mark or anyone else who commented please tell me if I'm on the right track here, add the LFE boost in the receiver and using the right analog option, 2 channel downmix or 7.1 without the back surrounds? Thanks to all, I really appreciate your thoughts on this. Again thanks for listening.
Best regards, Jeff

 

[ahblaza]

The +10dB offset is not in the signal itself, it is added during the decode by the receiver and for whatever reason, many internally decoding players do NOT do this automatically. Denon recognized this early on and added an option that adds this only for the analog outs, but a large percentage of players out don't have this, including the early Denons (my 2900 did not have it, but my 2200 did).

John, I tend to think this is the case with the internally decoding Panny 85 not automatically adding the 10dB offset, how can I be sure?
PS... The Legend is amazing, I used it with the PS3 slim via optical audio output, and setup with front corner placement and calibrating with SPL meter as you suggested, integration is good, if I could just get this Panny 85 setup right with the analog outputs I'll be good to go, talked to Chad and he said he would give me good deal on a second Legend. Nice.
Jeff

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello, in that setup menu before I got my sub I selected speaker presence and size with no sub and ran the test tone option, as far as adjusting the dB levels of individual speakers I was only able to lower the levels, no +dB only 0 dB or -dB, which I found to be odd, I left all levels at 0 and used the Panny 85 player with no sub. In the MCH mode in receiver I could not run any test tones with the receiver, so I just used the speaker xover and each speaker levels that I had selected in my original calibration with the SPL meter and sound quality was very good without sub. I have since added a sub in the BD player's 2 channel + 5.1 or 7.1 analog setup. What happened next was even more baffling, I ran the test tone generator in the player's menu and was still unable to increase the dB levels only -dB and it skipped the sub all together, it was not recognized, no xover setting either. I contacted Panasonic and this it what they said when I told them what was happeninguring the speaker test there will be no audio from the sub nor would you be able to increase the decibel of the individual speakers, this is normal, this is not a malfunction of the unit (DMP-BD85) as thats how the unit was designed, thank you for contacting Panasonic, end quote. In the MCH setting of my receiver I was able to adjust speaker levels, I just used the levels that I had previously set on the original calibration as test tones are not available in MCH operation. I have not tried playing a BD yet since integrating the sub. In the decoder section of the receiver's MCH option there is subwoofer sensitity adjustment, 0db, +5dB +10dB and +15dB, this option is only available in the MCH menu. I'm assuming since the player has no sub options except it's presence that I would have to add a LFE boost to the sub in the receiver's MCH subwoofer sensitivity option, what do you think? As far as the 2 channel downmix +5.1 and 7.1 analog setting, I'm using a 5.1 setup currently and chose the 7.1 option and selected no back surrounds in the presence option, right or wrong, your thoughts. Mark or anyone else who commented please tell me if I'm on the right track here, add the LFE boost in the receiver and using the right analog option, 2 channel downmix or 7.1 without the back surrounds? Thanks to all, I really appreciate your thoughts on this. Again thanks for listening.
Best regards, Jeff

This is difficult. Are you sure you really can adjust levels and do bass management via your receiver with the Multichannel inputs selected?

Normally Multichannel inputs are straight pass though with only the master volume operative.

It seems to me you have to do all the settings at the player level and not the receiver.

It does not matter that you can not boost a signal. Take zero db as a reference and just reduce the signal that need reducing, leaving the least sensitive speaker at 0 db.

Just copy the settings you used on your receiver allowing for the new 0 db reference point.

I think that is the only way to approach it.

 

[ahblaza]

This is difficult. Are you sure you really can adjust levels and do bass management via your receiver with the Multichannel inputs selected?

Normally Multichannel inputs are straight pass though with only the master volume operative.

It seems to me you have to do all the settings at the player level and not the receiver.

It does not matter that you can not boost a signal. Take zero db as a reference and just reduce the signal that need reducing, leaving the least sensitive speaker at 0 db.

Just copy the settings you used on your receiver allowing for the new 0 db reference point.

I think that is the only way to approach it.

Mark, yes I can adjust speaker levels + or -dB for all speakers including sub with the Multichannel inputs selected, but that is the extent of bass management, also there is a sub sensitivity or LFE option to adjust levels at 0db to +15 dB in +5dB increments which is only available with MCH inputs in the decoder setup menu, with the other modes in the decoder setup menu such as DTS and DD the LFE sensitivity options are 0dB, -10dB and -oodB, the Multichannel inputs are the only ones that I can adjust the LFE sensitivity as described above, it seems to me that I need to add the boost, I could be wrong, I am baffled at this point, I expected to be able to do all bass management functions in the player, not so, as the receiver allows me to raise or lower dB levels of all speakers including sub and offers the LFE option at 0db and to boost to +15 dB higher but no decrease in level. I'm tempted to just use the coaxial output, but that's not the reason I bought the Player, I have the PS3 setup that way with optical digital. If you can make any sense of this I would be truly grateful. Thanks so much for your time.
Jeff

 

[j_garcia]

Use the analog outs and adjust as TLS said, using the quietest speaker as the reference and leave it at zero; everything else is reduced compared to that to get it level. My 2900 is the same way. Leave everything at zero and see how it sounds. If it sounds OK, then don't add anything to the LFE channel.

I also have the ability to adjust +/-10dB on the multichannel inputs on my receiver, so I leave the Oppo at zero and use the receiver to adjust the levels. On my receiver, there is a separate calibration tone for the m/c inputs compared to all others that are bass managed.

 

[TLS Guy]

Use the analog outs and adjust as TLS said, using the quietest speaker as the reference and leave it at zero; everything else is reduced compared to that to get it level. My 2900 is the same way. Leave everything at zero and see how it sounds. If it sounds OK, then don't add anything to the LFE channel.

I also have the ability to adjust +/-10dB on the multichannel inputs on my receiver, so I leave the Oppo at zero and use the receiver to adjust the levels. On my receiver, there is a separate calibration tone for the m/c inputs compared to all others that are bass managed.

I agree with that. His sub should not have a 10db boost across the board. If the player does not recognize the LFE boost flags, then the receiver won't either via the analog ins, so he will have to do without the flags during effects. There is no way round that if the player does not recognize the flags, but it probably does.

 

[ahblaza]

I agree with that. His sub should not have a 10db boost across the board. If the player does not recognize the LFE boost flags, then the receiver won't either via the analog ins, so he will have to do without the flags during effects. There is no way round that if the player does not recognize the flags, but it probably does.

I think the boost will be there in every other input except the M/C analog unless I add it in the M/C inputs. Could you please explain the LFE boost flags, and why you think that the player should recognize these? Also as Panasonic says the player does not generate a tone for the sub, it accepts it's presence but skips over it when I run the player's test. I can select the sub in the test mode and select it's presence and only lower the dB level.
Thanks

 

[ahblaza]

Use the analog outs and adjust as TLS said, using the quietest speaker as the reference and leave it at zero; everything else is reduced compared to that to get it level. My 2900 is the same way. Leave everything at zero and see how it sounds. If it sounds OK, then don't add anything to the LFE channel.

I also have the ability to adjust +/-10dB on the multichannel inputs on my receiver, so I leave the Oppo at zero and use the receiver to adjust the levels. On my receiver, there is a separate calibration tone for the m/c inputs compared to all others that are bass managed.

John, I wish I had a separate calibration tone for the M/C inputs, that would simplfy everything. I will leave all speakers in the player at 0 and adjust individual speaker levels in the receiver and go from there, if not happy I will add the boost in the M/C input. Thanks.

 

[ahblaza]

I think I finally understand using the most quiet speaker tone in the player as the reference and leave it at 0dB and reduce the other speakers to match that level, but I'm still confused as why there is no tone from the sub in the player.
Thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

I think the boost will be there in every other input except the M/C analog unless I add it in the M/C inputs. Could you please explain the LFE boost flags, and why you think that the player should recognize these? Also as Panasonic says the player does not generate a tone for the sub, it accepts it's presence but skips over it when I run the player's test. I can select the sub in the test mode and select it's presence and only lower the dB level.
Thanks

I think it will recognize the flags as the flags for boosting explosions etc. are part of both Dolby and DTS protocols.

Your receiver can not recognize them from the analog inputs because it is analog.

I have no idea why there is no test tone for the sub in the player, but that is the way it is. However it is not a big issue as you know the relative sub level from your previous experience.

The last thing you want to do is set the sub +10 db across the board. You might well over load the sub and your bass level will be far too high.

You certainly can not boost the sub at the receiver, that will be across the board.

 

[ahblaza]

I think it will recognize the flags as the flags for boosting explosions etc. are part of both Dolby and DTS protocols.

Your receiver can not recognize them from the analog inputs because it is analog.

I have no idea why there is no test tone for the sub in the player, but that is the way it is. However it is not a big issue as you know the relative sub level from your previous experience.

The last thing you want to do is set the sub +10 db across the board. You might well over load the sub and your bass level will be far too high.

You certainly can not boost the sub at the receiver, that will be across the board.

Mark, thank you for the responce, the sub as you say really is not a big issue since I know the relative sub level from previous experience. So in the MCH setup menu I should not add the +10dB boost for the analog inputs, I thought this boost would only affect the MCH analog inputs and not the rest of the inputs since it seems manually available only for the MCH analog inputs. It is under sub sensitivity or LFE in the decoder setup menu's analog inputs(multi channel). It appears elsewhere in the decoder setup menu but I can only decrease the dB level in those options, the MCH inputs are the only option where I can increase dB level up to +15 dB. Thanks Mark for taking the time to reply to the never ending supply of questions, but what better place or people like yourself to find these valuable resourses of knowledge, I'm begining to get closer to and understanding how things work. I am really grateful to have this opportunity to get a grasp of what I am seeking, it's AH and people like yourself that makes all this happen, thank you again my friend.
Respectfully, Jeffrey