Bass Management/ YPAO Questions

[Gilbert Lopez]

First and foremost I’m a newbie to the site so please forgive me for asking rookie questions. I own a Yamaha CX-A5100 processor and running a 5.2.0 setup and have been looking to improve my overall bass per ( Gene’s ) 5 steps to better bass! My subs are a Paradigm sub 12 and a Paradigm DSP 3200. According to Paradigm, they recommend running the perfect bass kit first ( which I have already done ) before running YPAO. I configured my fronts and center to small and surrounds to small 80hz with the parametric eq set to flat then ran YPAO. After I ran YPAO I made physical distance adjustments to the subs using a tape measure because they were off by 12ft or so. I measured the subs from side to side first because they sit one on each side of the outside of my front speakers then measured from each sub to the main listening area and entered those distances including the side by side distance. I then level matched all speakers and subs using an SPL meter at about 75db then increased the subs 4db in the Yamaha’s bass management per Gene’s recommendation. My subs and overall system sound so much better especially my surrounds. I suppose increasing the subs dB in the Yamaha’s bass management has created a little more overall headroom. Now finally here’s my question. Does anyone know what Yamaha’s YPAO sets the Hz in the subs bass management? I can’t seem to find it anywhere in manual speaker configuration. Also, since I’m running all my speakers at 80hz and trying to run my subs at 80 hz, do I need to make physical setting to my subs? They are both set at volume = halfway, cutoff = by bass, and phase alignment = 0.

 

[lovinthehd]

Physical distance can be different due the additional processing time in the sub's amps, not unusual for it to be different than actual distance (delay). Your crossover setting of 80hz is the combination of a low pass filter for the sub and a high pass filter for the speakers. Some avrs have a separate LPF of LFE to adjust, that should normally be set at 120hz (and only affects the LFE channel content, i.e. the .1 channel from a movie). Raising the output level actually would reduce headroom but is likely more pleasing to the ear

 

[Gilbert Lopez]

Physical distance can be different due the additional processing time in the sub's amps, not unusual for it to be different than actual distance (delay). Your crossover setting of 80hz is the combination of a low pass filter for the sub and a high pass filter for the speakers. Some avrs have a separate LPF of LFE to adjust, that should normally be set at 120hz (and only affects the LFE channel content, i.e. the .1 channel from a movie). Raising the output level actually would reduce headroom but is likely more pleasing to the ear [/QUOTE

Mr. Lovinthehd Thank You very much for responding. I’ve thrown up the white flag as I have surrendered since I still haven’t figured out what my Yamaha CX- A5100 sound processor sets the Hz on my subs after YPAO room correction however, I am very pleased with with the fullness and clarity I’m getting by turning up both subs 4db manually in the Yamaha. According to Paradigm, setting the crossovers knob to bypass allows the subs to use the sound processors room correction. Whatever YPAO set the Hz in my subs has really cleaned the sound and crispness.My equipment is not in a 4 corner room and is open to my kitchen and hallway so filling my room with sound is always a task. I just watched Arrival and Cabin in the woods. My subs really came alive!!! My room was shaking! Thanks again for your input.
My Equipment:
Yamaha CX-A5100
Parasound A51
Parasound A31
Panamax m5400
Oppo BDP 205
Paradigm fronts Signature s6
Paradigm center c5
Paradigm surrounds ADP 390
Paradigm sub 12
Paradigm DSP 3200
LG OLED 65b6

 

[lovinthehd]

Mr. Lovinthehd Thank You very much for responding. I’ve thrown up the white flag as I have surrendered since I still haven’t figured out what my Yamaha CX- A5100 sound processor sets the Hz on my subs after YPAO room correction however, I am very pleased with with the fullness and clarity I’m getting by turning up both subs 4db manually in the Yamaha. According to Paradigm, setting the crossovers knob to bypass allows the subs to use the sound processors room correction.

Not sure what you mean by "sets the Hz on my subs after YPAO" particularly. If you let YPAO run it normally would suggest crossovers based on the measured response, it might even set speakers to large rather than small (and usually an avr may set a speaker to large if it measures an f3 (or -3dB point) of 40hz or lower),and often you only raise a suggested crossover point. Or I'm not understanding what you're looking for outside of the crossover....

 

[Gilbert Lopez]

Let me see if I can clarify. When I ran YPAO room correction , it set my fronts and center to large which i believe is 40hz and my surrounds to small 80hz but it doesn’t show the subs settings? It only shows the subs level and distance. I went ahead and changed the fronts and center to small so all speakers are set to 80hz and was trying to set subs the same way. Maybe I’m not understanding the simplicity of all this. Nevertheless my system sounds really great by adjusting the distances and level on the subs. Just wanted to see how or what YPAO sets the subs after room correction

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, you're overthinking it. There is only setting the crossover, which sets the crossover point of the high filter for the speakers and the low filter for the subs. That is the sub setting same as it is the speaker setting. Maybe a graphic of a crossover helps?

 

[Gilbert Lopez]

Thanks for the clarification! Yes, that makes more sense to me now! Do you recommend leaving the the subs control knobs set to bypass? According to Paradigm, it allows the subs to use the sound processor or avr’s room correction. Right now, my system sounds really great! However, I’m always looking for better sound but I don’t want to damage my speakers either.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the clarification! Yes, that makes more sense to me now! Do you recommend leaving the the subs control knobs set to bypass? According to Paradigm, it allows the subs to use the sound processor or avr’s room correction. Right now, my system sounds really great! However, I’m always looking for better sound but I don’t want to damage my speakers either.

Yes, bypass or LFE settings on the sub (or max out the low pass filter) so your avr can set the crossover and use the avr or pre-pro's bass management (doesn't necessarily mean using the room correction eq).

 

[Gilbert Lopez]

Mr. Lovinthehd, Thanks again for clearing many things up for me. The graph really puts things into proper perspective! I guess I was confusing bass management vs room correction. In case anyone hasn’t told you.....you are the Overlord!

 

[lovinthehd]

Mr. Lovinthehd, Thanks again for clearing many things up for me. The graph really puts things into proper perspective! I guess I was confusing bass management vs room correction. In case anyone hasn’t told you.....you are the Overlord!

You're welcome, it'll all make a bit more sense as you familiarize yourself with the many options out there. A lot of sub manufacturers don't make it any better when they label a low pass filter a crossover, and sometimes the mixing of the term LFE with bass management options. As to the overlord thing, LOL, just keep posting a lot and you'll get there, too.