Y

yangyaphile

Enthusiast
Hi All,
Here's my story. First off, my living room is approx. 15' x 20'. Originally, I bought the Polk R200 bookshelves and had them on stands. They were placed about 20 inches from the front wall.
I mostly listen to classic rock (Pink Floyd, Beatles, Dire Straits, James Taylor - on and on....). I really liked the Polks except my wife says they are too boomy (I believe she doesn't like the very deep bass notes - says it hurts her ears). Now I don't play anything really loud (70 to 75 maybe 78 db max). So, I went on a speaker quest and bought the Elac Uni-Fi UB5.2.
Reasons for choosing these is they have a smaller cabinet dimension, a 5 1/4" woofer and are front ported (the Polks have a 6 1/2" woofer and are rear ported).
At first my wife like these better, but on the second day I played them, I chose better recorded material (with deeper bass/clarity). Now she's complaining again about the bass.
So, my question is: Can anyone recommend a good sounding bookshelf speaker that doesn't have a lot of deep bass output? I know I can fiddle with tone controls, putting plugs in the ports (which I will try), but aside from that, I would still love to get some recommendations on other bookshelf speakers. Many thanks!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi All,
Here's my story. First off, my living room is approx. 15' x 20'. Originally, I bought the Polk R200 bookshelves and had them on stands. They were placed about 20 inches from the front wall.
I mostly listen to classic rock (Pink Floyd, Beatles, Dire Straits, James Taylor - on and on....). I really liked the Polks except my wife says they are too boomy (I believe she doesn't like the very deep bass notes - says it hurts her ears). Now I don't play anything really loud (70 to 75 maybe 78 db max). So, I went on a speaker quest and bought the Elac Uni-Fi UB5.2.
Reasons for choosing these is they have a smaller cabinet dimension, a 5 1/4" woofer and are front ported (the Polks have a 6 1/2" woofer and are rear ported).
At first my wife like these better, but on the second day I played them, I chose better recorded material (with deeper bass/clarity). Now she's complaining again about the bass.
So, my question is: Can anyone recommend a good sounding bookshelf speaker that doesn't have a lot of deep bass output? I know I can fiddle with tone controls, putting plugs in the ports (which I will try), but aside from that, I would still love to get some recommendations on other bookshelf speakers. Many thanks!
My experience is that women are more discerning than men about reproduced sound, and more often intuitively correct than men. I think that is why so few women get involved as they hear too many flaws. As I was growing up my mother had an uncanny knack of hearing problems immediately.

It was really brought home to me, when I went on a service call, to a single female now retired, who owned Quad ESL 63s. She has owned them most of her life. So on this occasion I asked her about her choice. She said those Quad ESLs were the only ones she auditioned she could possibly tolerate. So I think in general women are adverse to resonant bass.



Now moving coil cone systems are pretty much all resonant systems in the bass. Ported speakers obviously are. However, sealed speakers are also resonant systems. I know this may surprise some, but they are. So I suspect this is the basis of your wife's displeasure.

Apart from using panel speakers, like Quads and Maggie the only two solutions I know are very low Qts drivers horn loaded to bring up the bass, or aperiodically damped transmission line speakers. These designs can be critically damped. That is my preferred form of loading.

The only damped smaller speaker I know is from PMC who have labyrinth design in their range. I have designed and built labyrinth bookshelves. One design was for my sister, four years my junior, about sixty years ago. She is still using them and won't part with them.

I had a recent similar experience with my own wife. I built her an in wall system with an in wall TL sub, and sealed left right and center. But even she was sensitive to the slight ripple at the lower end of the sealed speakers. So I had to raise the crossover frequency well above the ripple to the sub. Since they are all in proximity that was no problem. Now I have a happy wife.

So I fear you are going to need panel speakers or build a damped TL design. Women tolerate bass in my experience, but not resonant bass.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi All,
Here's my story. First off, my living room is approx. 15' x 20'. Originally, I bought the Polk R200 bookshelves and had them on stands. They were placed about 20 inches from the front wall.
I mostly listen to classic rock (Pink Floyd, Beatles, Dire Straits, James Taylor - on and on....). I really liked the Polks except my wife says they are too boomy (I believe she doesn't like the very deep bass notes - says it hurts her ears). Now I don't play anything really loud (70 to 75 maybe 78 db max). So, I went on a speaker quest and bought the Elac Uni-Fi UB5.2.
Reasons for choosing these is they have a smaller cabinet dimension, a 5 1/4" woofer and are front ported (the Polks have a 6 1/2" woofer and are rear ported).
At first my wife like these better, but on the second day I played them, I chose better recorded material (with deeper bass/clarity). Now she's complaining again about the bass.
So, my question is: Can anyone recommend a good sounding bookshelf speaker that doesn't have a lot of deep bass output? I know I can fiddle with tone controls, putting plugs in the ports (which I will try), but aside from that, I would still love to get some recommendations on other bookshelf speakers. Many thanks!
Does your wife suffer from allergies or sinus/ear problems? I have been overly sensitive to bass at times, but it was worst when I had a sinus infection or a bad cold.
 
Y

yangyaphile

Enthusiast
No sinus or ear issues. I just think she has an aversion to very deep bass. Here's an example:
When I put on Aqualung by Jethro Tull (which isn't the best recording), she has no issues.
When I put on Mark Knopfler (say the Tracker album or All the Roadrunning) which to my ears are very well recorded, she will complain about the bass. I believe it's simply because there is a lot more low frequencies in the recording. I was looking at the Sonus Faber Lumina I which has a 4 3/4 mid bass driver with a frequency response of: 65-24,000 Hz. Also, the cabinet is significantly smaller. Just some food for thought.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
No sinus or ear issues. I just think she has an aversion to very deep bass. Here's an example:
When I put on Aqualung by Jethro Tull (which isn't the best recording), she has no issues.
When I put on Mark Knopfler (say the Tracker album or All the Roadrunning) which to my ears are very well recorded, she will complain about the bass. I believe it's simply because there is a lot more low frequencies in the recording. I was looking at the Sonus Faber Lumina I which has a 4 3/4 mid bass driver with a frequency response of: 65-24,000 Hz. Also, the cabinet is significantly smaller. Just some food for thought.
I bet she is not sensitive to deep bass, but resonant bass. No matter where you tune the speaker, high or low, it will be resonant and she won't like it.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
perhaps your rooms acoustic interaction is exacerbating her 'bass issues' ?

FWIW, my room (14'6" x 24'6") improved in the bottom octaves years back when I provided corner bass trapping in all four corners
 
Y

yangyaphile

Enthusiast
TLS Guy: OK, I hear what you're saying. But just humor me for a second. Let's say that it ISN'T resonant bass that's bothering her, but very deep bass does. For my smallish room that can't handle a planar type of speaker (she wouldn't want to see anything like that anyway), I'm looking for actual small bookshelf speaker recommendations.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
show me a bookshelf speaker that can produce 'deep' bass accurately without resonance........ ;)
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Can anyone recommend a good sounding bookshelf speaker that doesn't have a lot of deep bass output?
NHT makes two small bookshelf speakers, the SuperOne and SuperZero. The SuperOne is larger, with a 6½" woofer, and is saind to go down to 56 Hz. The smaller SuperZero has a 4½" woofer that is said to go down to 85 Hz.

Both speakers have sealed cabinets, without a port vent. They'll produce a different sounding bass than speakers with ported cabinets. To me, their bass sounds less resonant, less potent. To put it in words, sealed cabinets have bass that sounds dry & restrained, where ported cabinet bass can (but not always) has a less restrained, more resonant, or sloppier sound. Whether they suit your wife is another question.

NHT sells its speakers directly from its website, as well as through Amazon, and also through a few dealers.
 
Y

yangyaphile

Enthusiast
Right, I get ya. What I'm looking for is a bookshelf speaker that has great mids & highs with detail and air WITHOUT any useful deep bass. Maybe something that really rolls off at 70hz. So far, I've looked at Sonus Faber Lumina I and Martin Logan 15i. Any others?
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Are you using a receiver with subwoofer pre-out? With an AVR you can enable the subwoofer pre-out which enables the crossover setting. Set the speakers to "small" but do not connect a subwoofer. That will effectively high-pass the speakers above the crossover point. If it's a 2-channel amp or receiver with no subwoofer controls then the above recommendations apply.
 
Y

yangyaphile

Enthusiast
No. I have a NAD 326BEE 50 watt integrated amp. It does have a sub out but no way to control it.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Right, I get ya. What I'm looking for is a bookshelf speaker that has great mids & highs with detail and air WITHOUT any useful deep bass. Maybe something that really rolls off at 70hz. So far, I've looked at Sonus Faber Lumina I and Martin Logan 15i. Any others?
It is difficult to compare bass performance by that single roll-off number, when comparing ported cabinets vs. sealed cabinets. Usually that single number is the so-called F3 number, the frequency at which bass performance has dropped 3 dB lower than at higher frequencies.

Bass in ported cabinets rolls off with a slope of about 24 dB/octave. In sealed cabinets, the bass rolls off with a shallower slope of about 12 dB/octave. As a result, about an octave below the F3 frequency, ported cabinets have little or no audible bass. Because sealed cabinets have a shallower bass roll-off, they can produce quieter but still audible bass at lower frequencies than ported cabinets.

I hope that helps.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
For what it's worth, I use NHT SuperZero speakers as rear channel speakers in a 5-channel system. Their mid-range and treble (but not bass) are good enough to keep up with my much better quality front speakers, Salk Veracity ST speakers.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Right, I get ya. What I'm looking for is a bookshelf speaker that has great mids & highs with detail and air WITHOUT any useful deep bass. Maybe something that really rolls off at 70hz. So far, I've looked at Sonus Faber Lumina I and Martin Logan 15i. Any others?
The point is that NO bookshelves have deep bass. A sealed enclosure is absolutely no guarantee of a non resonant bass, as there is always a varying degree of ripple before roll off, sometimes quite extensive.

This is the only bookshelf speaker that I am aware of that will solve your wife's problem.

Most audio enthusiasts come to tune this problem of resonant bass out. I probably could not live with any members systems here for this reason. That includes our illustrious leader.

This problem was realized early in the post war II Hi-Fi boom. That led Peter Walker to develop the landmark ESL 57. Introduced in 1957.



The speaker had serious power limitations, but it was accurate beyond anything heard before.

So there was a rush to try and develop moving coil speakers to have much less bass coloration. This led to the formation of the Radford research group, many famous pioneers were closely involved, and many heavily involved on the periphery. I had the good fortune to personally know and learn from a number of these guys. The upshot was the development of the aperiodically damped transmission line speakers. The pinnacle was the development of the triamped monitors for the BBC studio at Maida Vale. There have been a number of successful designs over the years, especially from John Wright of TDL.

The problem is that these speakers for extended bass are large, the construction complex and costly. The other issue is that there is a relatively narrow range of driver Thiele/Small parameters that are ideal for TL loading.

I have been building speakers based on the work of this Radford group and George Augspurger's work while at Harmon. A design model I received from him, can be downloaded from my website, which can be used without restriction.

I maintain your wife does not tolerate resonant reproduction and nor do I. I think many women are actually in that boat. That is from my personal observation. So I think your wife's issue is not deep bass, but resonant bass.
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Right, I get ya. What I'm looking for is a bookshelf speaker that has great mids & highs with detail and air WITHOUT any useful deep bass. Maybe something that really rolls off at 70hz. So far, I've looked at Sonus Faber Lumina I and Martin Logan 15i. Any others?
There are a few stand mount speakers that have bass output into mid 20s. Jeff Bagbys Helios with a 9.5 SB Satori woofer, waveguide loaded SB Beryllium tweeter and passive radiator is a great example but you'd have to build them or have someone do so. IIRC his partner on the design said he had no problem getting out of 110db at 2.5 meters with insanely low distortion except way down deep. I have the same woofer and tweeter (non waveguide)in larger floor standing speakers and love their sound.

Another would be the Buchart A500 and it's powered. Flat to 25hz
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Is your wife at the same seating location you are sitting at when she doesn't like the bass, or is she toward the opposite end of the room where the bass piles up? In order for me to hear bass the way I like it where I am sitting near field, would pretty much womp someone fourfold, if they were in the kitchen at the other end of the house.

Better solution would be (since they are little speakers anyway) to set up a strong 2.1 desktop system in another room for jamming out with the correct amount of bass, and a more ambient system in the shared spaces. Modern living rooms are some of the worst places for audio, that need all kinds of corrective measures.

When I have company staying here, I resort to my bedroom system or my workshop. 2 of my other friends have since set up a 2 channel banger of a 2.1 in spare rooms since hearing mine. They just hadn't thought about personalizing the effort, for having been preprogrammed that everyone has to be in the living room together for everything and that's where all the entertainment has to happen.
 
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