Bass Crossover Issue with RX-V659

[FLMike]

I am having an issue with bass cross over with my RX-V659. I just purchased a new sub and want to experiment with using the receivers crossover vs the LFM1-Plus to get the right integration and fit for the room. But I am having an issue with the receivers bass management. The only way that I can get output to the sub is with output set to both front mains and to sub. If it is set to subwoofer only, then no output goes to the sub no matter how high I set the crossover. The mains are set to large, so suppose I could set them to small. But I want some of the bass sent to them to avoid localization issues. Anone else had this issue or have any advice how to troubleshoot it?

 

[Nomo]

Does this occur in all modes of output?

stereo, Pure direct, pro logic?

 

[FLMike]

Good Question

I was really working with two channel output in this case, so I haven't looked at multi-channel yet. I had found another thread on this that indicated that to get subwoofer output in two channel mode with this receiver you needed to set fronts to large and output to "both". What I wanted to do is set the fronts to large and define a crossover point at which bass is sent to the SW. Doesn't look like this is possible.

Also, I just re-read the bass management section of the manual, and unfortunately it looks like if I set the fronts to small and then attempt to use the crossover it will cause bass output to be sent to the surrounds as well. It looks like a global setting. So it may be that the only real option I have is to send LFE to both and work with the Subs crossover to blend with the fronts (Athena AS-F2's).

Mike

 

[Exit]

I have a Yamaha receiver and I had to set the subwoofer to "both" to get it to run.
Doesn't seem right but it works ok for me. You might want to contact Yamaha. If you do find a better fix let us know.

To Contact Yamaha Technical Support
To contact a technical support representative, please use the following information:
Audio Visual:
1-800-292-2982
https://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/emailrequest.html?CTID=5010270

 

[zumbo]

Speakers should be set to SMALL. LARGE is an incorrect setting. It is just as simple as that.

Read this, and follow the advice exactly as it states.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple/

 

[zumbo]

Depending on your center channels FR, you may want to try a 60Hz x-over setting. This will help with the localization issue. Can you list your current center channel?

 

[FLMike]

Large not necessarily "right" setting

Zumbo,
I'm sorry, but that is simply not the case in EVERY setup. See this link regarding the challenges of integrating towers with a sub: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/the-marriage-between-the-subwoofer-and-tower-speakers

My AS-F2 fronts are bass capable. My surrounds are not. I am discovering that this presents all of the challenges mentioned in the link. If I set the fronts to small, along with the surrounds, I will have to set my crossover the same for all speakers. This will cause one of two things. Either I will send everything below say 80 Hz to the sub, which may cause localization issues or I will set it lower--lets say 60 HZ or lower--in which case I will be sending more bass to the surrounds than I want. What I wanted to do was to have a different crossover for the mains than the surrounds, which I can't do. The receiver only supports one crossover for all speakers set to small. If you want to use the fronts for bass, it looks like the only way to do so is to set LF output to "both" and work with the subwoofers crossover to blend it and eliminate bass reinforcement issues. If anyone else sees this differently, please chime in.

Mike

 

[FLMike]

Center Channel

Matching Athena center. Surrounds are Axiom M-2ti.

 

[zumbo]

While your speakers may be bass capable, they are not full-range. The crossover setting is not going to harm your rears, but it does matter what center channel you have.

 

[zumbo]

Matching Athena center. Surrounds are Axiom M-2ti.

OUCH! Gonna have to stick with 80Hz if you use a SMALL setting. I wouldn't recommend any lower due to your centers limited capability.

 

[Tomorrow]

I am having an issue with bass cross over with my RX-V659. I just purchased a new sub and want to experiment with using the receivers crossover vs the LFM1-Plus to get the right integration and fit for the room. But I am having an issue with the receivers bass management. The only way that I can get output to the sub is with output set to both front mains and to sub. If it is set to subwoofer only, then no output goes to the sub no matter how high I set the crossover. The mains are set to large, so suppose I could set them to small. But I want some of the bass sent to them to avoid localization issues. Anone else had this issue or have any advice how to troubleshoot it?

It may be my aged and clouded mind, but I can't understand what your issue is. Are you saying that your sub has proven to work, but only when your mains are set to small OR when the sub out setting is to "both" rather than to just the sub? (How have you tested for "output" to the sub, btw?) That really makes no sense at all...at least that is not the way my RX-V2500 works. Sub out to "both" will provide output to both mains and sub regardless of your speaker settings of "large" or "small".

I believe Nomo hit the key issue when he asked about your setup. If you are in Pure Direct mode, your sub will not work in that situation, but only then. You either have a whacky problem with the receiver or the operator. (Understanding new equipment and Asian written manuals can easily produce confusion.) But they aren't designed to work the way you describe.

 

[FLMike]

It may be my aged and clouded mind, but I can't understand what your issue is. Are you saying that your sub has proven to work, but only when your mains are set to small OR when the sub out setting is to "both" rather than to just the sub? (How have you tested for "output" to the sub, btw?) That really makes no sense at all...at least that is not the way my RX-V2500 works. Sub out to "both" will provide output to both mains and sub regardless of your speaker settings of "large" or "small". .

Actually, that is exactly what I am saying and it seems to be working as designed. If you have the fronts set to large, you apparently cannot force output to sub-only. You have to set them to small and specify the crossover. Then you can select the sub-only output option and the receiver will output anything below that to the sub. If you set them to Large, the receiver outputs anything below the crossover-point set for the small setting to the mains. In this config the receiver give you the options to output to the sub in addition to the mains (or any other speaker set to large). If anything is set to large on the system, then the output to "sub only" will not work. It is confusing, but it makes sense now.

I believe Nomo hit the key issue when he asked about your setup. If you are in Pure Direct mode, your sub will not work in that situation, but only then. You either have a whacky problem with the receiver or the operator. (Understanding new equipment and Asian written manuals can easily produce confusion.) But they aren't designed to work the way you describe.

Yes,the combination of a confused operator and a translated manual is probably not the best ! But I do understand tha pure direct will never work with the sub.

Thanks to all for the input. I appreciate it. I may try setting everything to small and using a 60 Hz crossover. But as another poster commented it may not work well with my center. At least now I understand what options I do and don;t have. Heck, it may just trigger a round of upgraditis. ;-)

Mike

 

[zumbo]

I may try setting everything to small and using a 60 Hz crossover. But as another poster commented it may not work well with my center. Mike

It will probably be ok like this. I would just be careful on something like a concert dvd, or any 5.1 music. If you hear a slap from the center, be ready to turn it down a tad. As long as you are cautious, it should be fine.

 

[Tomorrow]

Actually, that is exactly what I am saying and it seems to be working as designed. If you have the fronts set to large, you apparently cannot force output to sub-only. You have to set them to small and specify the crossover. Then you can select the sub-only output option and the receiver will output anything below that to the sub. If you set them to Large, the receiver outputs anything below the crossover-point set for the small setting to the mains. In this config the receiver give you the options to output to the sub in addition to the mains (or any other speaker set to large). If anything is set to large on the system, then the output to "sub only" will not work. It is confusing, but it makes sense now.



Yes,the combination of a confused operator and a translated manual is probably not the best ! But I do understand tha pure direct will never work with the sub.

Thanks to all for the input. I appreciate it. I may try setting everything to small and using a 60 Hz crossover. But as another poster commented it may not work well with my center. At least now I understand what options I do and don;t have. Heck, it may just trigger a round of upgraditis. ;-)

Mike

Hi Mike.

I just gandered around the inet briefly. I couldn't find an online manual to look at. But I did find this old review from Gene ... http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v659/rx-v659-system-setup-configuration. Perhaps he will chime in. But basically he addressed the issue you've experienced only in 2 channel mode. He didn't mention the multi-channel capabilities of the crossover output.

Geez, that is such a goofy thing. Will your receiver output LFE in multi-channel modes to sub only (with the mains set to large)? If it doesn't, that's a big -1 for the unit and would surely set my upgrade juices flowing.

Good luck with your system.

 

[FLMike]

Thanks Tomorrow

Tomorrow,
Thanks a lot. Since I've only got the single cross-over point available for both multi-channel as well as two channel, I've put everything to small, set to a single 60 Hz X-over as I mentioned I was going to try. It actually sounds pretty good. I also need to try a few other places in the room. Guess I may not be qable to use this excuse to buy those nice new Aperions after all....Darn. LOL

 

[zumbo]

Tomorrow,
Thanks a lot. Since I've only got the single cross-over point available for both multi-channel as well as two channel, I've put everything to small, set to a single 60 Hz X-over as I mentioned I was going to try. It actually sounds pretty good. I also need to try a few other places in the room. Guess I may not be qable to use this excuse to buy those nice new Aperions after all....Darn. LOL

I recommended this in post #6. No thanks to me I see.

 

[FLMike]

Sorry Zumbo!

Zumbo,
Sorry! No slight intented. Thanks so much for taking the time to help. I am still concerned about whether this center will cooperate with this long term, like I think you mentioned earlier, but we shall see. I may still have an excuse (or at least make one up ) to get a new set of mains and a new center.

Mike

 

[zumbo]

Zumbo,
Sorry! No slight intented. Thanks so much for taking the time to help. I am still concerned about whether this center will cooperate with this long term, like I think you mentioned earlier, but we shall see. I may still have an excuse (or at least make one up ) to get a new set of mains and a new center.

Mike

Just messin with ya. As I mentioned, I would just be careful on 5.1 music playback.

 

[MDS]

I recommended this in post #6. No thanks to me I see.

I'll say thanks. You're spot on.

FL Mike,
By definition that is how bass management works. 'Large' means send that speaker/channel a full range signal whereas 'Small' means redirect the bass below the xover for that channel to the subwoofer. That is why you have to set the mains to Large to enable the 'both' setting - Both means send the mains a full range signal AND also send bass below the xover to the sub (hence the mains and the sub are both playing the bass; Onkyo calls this feature 'double bass' which is more descriptive of what is happening).

 

[FLMike]

MDS--Yes, I got it

MDS.
Yes,I understand it now. And now I understand that the ability to set two crossover points, one for mains, one for everything else is out there but not common (per an article in a link posted early on in the thread). Ideally I would like to have a crossover for my mains, and a separate one for the center and surrounds or at least the surrounds on their own. Although the article also says that this brings its own set of potential problems.

This confusion could have been avoided if Yamaha did not allow you to select "Subwoofer Only" output when you have mains (or any other speaker for that matter) set to large. That is what confused me and made me think that I was doing something incorrectly. It allows you to select "Sub Only" and a crossover, but doesn't do what you would expect as a novice--actually output anything to the sub. That said, I have learned a few things from this thread that will factor in to my next speaker purchase for sure.

Mike

Mike