Balanced & Unbalanced Outputs (audio)

[MR.MAGOO]

What is the difference between balanced and unbalanced?

 

[speakerman39]

What is the difference between balanced and unbalanced?

Balanced outputs have less noise in the signal path from what I understand. Here is a read for you:

http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

http://thehub.musiciansfriend.com/tech-tips/unbalanced-versus-balanced-i-o-and-how-to-work-with-them


Of course, balanced outputs also require the right cables. I am sure other will chime in. Just thought that I would mention this. Still learning myself.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Swerd]

What is the difference between balanced and unbalanced?

Balanced connections, with 3-pin XLR terminals, are commonly used for live audio and in recording studios for microphones with long cables. Long cables (30 feet or more) carrying microphone voltage (1-3 mV, see below) signals can pick up noise induced by electromagnetic interference (EMI) or radio frequency interference (RFI). Balanced connections along with the differential circuits required on the electronic gear can cancel out this noise. Read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio.

Because of that, pro audio and recording studios long ago chose balanced connectors for all uses, to avoid confusion between multiple balanced and unbalanced cables.

It seems that balanced connections, with 3-pin XLR terminals, have become fashionable for home audio preamp-to-amp connections, and many examples feature these as a sought-after feature, usually at higher prices. The voltage levels between preamps and amps are much higher than microphone level, roughly in the range of 0.1 to 5.0 volts (100 to 5,000 mV). So it is likely that interconnects at this level are less prone to EMI induced noise, especially if they are less than 30 feet long. I think that standard unbalanced RCA interconnects between a preamp and amp are fine, unless you have an unusually noisy environment with high levels of EMI. Unfortunately, audiophiles who have may have money to burn and are interested in following fashion, are rarely convinced by practical arguments.

 

[Bucknekked]

Unfortunately, audiophiles who have may have money to burn and are interested in following fashion, are rarely convinced by practical arguments.

Swerd:
I am shocked and dismayed by this. If this is true, then are you saying there are audiophiles who will spend exorbitant amounts of money on audio products that have no audible affect? I am going to have to go and sit down. My head is spinning. Oh dang, I almost tripped over that XLR cord I just bought.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Swerd:
I am shocked and dismayed by this. If this is true, then are you saying there are audiophiles who will spend exorbitant amounts of money on audio products that have no audible affect? I am going to have to go and sit down. My head is spinning. Oh dang, I almost tripped over that XLR cord I just bought.

Good that you're using XLR cables, because they are always better. Always. The connectors have far better designs that use positive locking. Balanced interconnects give you the benefit of common-mode noise cancellation. Do they always provide an audible improvement? No, but that doesn't mean they're not always better overall, just like lossless storage for digital music is always better than lossy strategies, even when the difference is not audible in any specific circumstance.

 

[Bucknekked]

Good that you're using XLR cables, because they are always better. Always. The connectors have far better designs that use positive locking. Balanced interconnects give you the benefit of common-mode noise cancellation. Do they always provide an audible improvement? No, but that doesn't mean they're not always better overall, just like lossless storage for digital music is always better than lossy strategies, even when the difference is not audible in any specific circumstance.

humor is so hard on forums..........

 

[Irvrobinson]

humor is so hard on forums..........

I'll say, especially since my reply was really baiting Swerd. I couldn't resist...

 

[highfigh]

Good that you're using XLR cables, because they are always better. Always. The connectors have far better designs that use positive locking. Balanced interconnects give you the benefit of common-mode noise cancellation. Do they always provide an audible improvement? No, but that doesn't mean they're not always better overall, just like lossless storage for digital music is always better than lossy strategies, even when the difference is not audible in any specific circumstance.

Shielded twisted-pair used with RCA plugs benefits from common mode noise reduction, as long as they're grounded correctly.

The use of cables with XLR is mostly mis-understood and some people will just not look into the technical details of it.

Common mode noise reduction by itself is a fine goal, but the difference/value is dubious when using cables that cost hundreds or thousands of dollars.

BTW- if anyone is looking for a deal on A23 batteries, I found them at Menard's- a two pack costs $2.89. These are the same batteries used in AudioQuest cables.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Shielded twisted-pair used with RCA plugs benefits from common mode noise reduction, as long as they're grounded correctly.

How? RCA plugs are by definition single-ended.

 

[Bucknekked]

I'll say, especially since my reply was really baiting Swerd. I couldn't resist...

you got me. totally got me.

 

[vsound5150]

Dang it I just picked up a 6' Mogami XLR cable for my mic measurement gear expecting to get the cleanest signal from the mic over to the computer/REW. What a wasted $45...well at least it has pretty gold connectors.

 

[Swerd]

I'll say, especially since my reply was really baiting Swerd. I couldn't resist...

You know I see red when you, or anyone, says ALWAYS .

Anyone with an engineering background knows the technically correct answer to a problem, even if it might be expensive overkill. Only experienced people understand the difference between good enough and the best possible solution. Balanced vs. unbalance interconnect cables in home audio is an example.

Irv likes to goad me into responding too quickly and saying some incorrect detail, so he can jump on it. I'm not an engineer and I usually get away with it, unless Irv is lurking. I think he should concentrate on a certain over-eager newbie who recently started lecturing us on how important exotic DACs can be .

 

[Irvrobinson]

You know I see red when you, or anyone, says ALWAYS .

Oh really? I only used "always" five times in that one paragraph. I must be slipping.

 

[Swerd]

Oh really? I only used "always" five times in that one paragraph. I must be slipping.

No, it's that new medication I'm taking. It must be working.

 

[Bucknekked]

You know I see red when you, or anyone, says ALWAYS .
I think he should concentrate on a certain over-eager newbie who recently started lecturing us on how important exotic DACs can be .

I wagered a doughnut on the outcome of that thread as soon as it started. I went ahead and ate my doughnut because there wasn't too much doubt as to how that was going to come out.

Irv could also weigh in with the guy who bought $4,000 worth of gear and did not know how to plug any of it in and ended up not using $1K of it and having to go back and buy more gear. Or, well, I suppose that's enough for one day.

If Irv is an engineer, then perhaps he can appreciate this life metaphor regarding problem solving. When examining a problem, there are glass half full guys and glass half empty guys. An engineers response is typically "the glass is neither half empty or half full. The glass is twice as big as it needs to be".

badda bump.

 

[Irvrobinson]

When examining a problem, there are glass half full guys and glass half empty guys. An engineers response is typically "the glass is neither half empty or half full. The glass is twice as big as it needs to be".

badda bump.

Perhaps mechanical engineers are like that, but analog electrical engineers never want to fully deplete their loss budget, so they would see the extra space in the glass as headroom.

 

[Bucknekked]

Perhaps mechanical engineers are like that, but analog electrical engineers never want to fully deplete their loss budget, so they would see the extra space in the glass as headroom.

Spoken like a true engineer

 

[highfigh]

How? RCA plugs are by definition single-ended.

Yes, they are but the shield can be connected at the preamp to encase the twisted pair, adding to noise rejection. No, it's not the same as a balanced twisted pair for lowZ, but it helps and in some applications, like car audio, every bit makes a cumulative difference.

 

[highfigh]

Dang it I just picked up a 6' Mogami XLR cable for my mic measurement gear expecting to get the cleanest signal from the mic over to the computer/REW. What a wasted $45...well at least it has pretty gold connectors.

It is good cable, though. It can be stepped on, it rejects noise very well and it's capable of good response without high frequency loss. Will it be audibly better than a Hosa cable? Maybe, maybe not. If you have the time and ability to make a good solder joint, there's absolutely no reason not to make your own- you WILL save a lot of money and get a good product. Parts Express sells Canare cable for less than a buck per foot and Neutrik ends are about $5 each.

"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away". - Tom Waits

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yes, they are but the shield can be connected at the preamp to encase the twisted pair, adding to noise rejection. No, it's not the same as a balanced twisted pair for lowZ, but it helps and in some applications, like car audio, every bit makes a cumulative difference.

You are distorting the facts. [pun intended] Balanced circuits, which are interconnected by balanced cables, use split phase signals that when terminated in a combining circuit cancel the common noise carried in the two opposite phase halves of the signal. A shield is a different thing altogether, and works on the same principal as a Faraday cage. The balanced interconnects I use (from Blue Jeans) are based on Belden 1800F cable, which includes a braided shield, so you get both a shield to reduce interference, and then common mode cancellation to reduce added transmission noise. Use balanced connections from the source through all balanced circuits to a balanced amp, and you get end-to-end common mode cancellation.