Backboxes for In-ceiling Speakers

[Stealth19]

I am installing in-ceiling speakers to my covered back patio that's in construction now. I was wondering what the optimal size backboxes do I need to make for the following speakers.
- Focal Littora 200 Series ICW8 in-ceiling
- Focal Littora 1000 Series ICW Sub10 in-ceiling

Also what would be the optimal material, thickness, insulation material inside box to make these backboxes. How do I port the speaker wire through the box.

Regarding the A/V receiver I will need a 7.2 and 5.2 channel. Should I go with Marantz, Denon or what would be the optimal brand to go with and model. The AV equipment storage closet will be in the house on the second floor. So, I need to be able to operate the equipment through walls. I'm using a Focal amplifier to assist with the (2) Sub10's.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[TLS Guy]

I am installing in-ceiling speakers to my covered back patio that's in construction now. I was wondering what the optimal size backboxes do I need to make for the following speakers.
- Focal Littora 200 Series ICW8 in-ceiling
- Focal Littora 1000 Series ICW Sub10 in-ceiling

Also what would be the optimal material, thickness, insulation material inside box to make these backboxes. How do I port the speaker wire through the box.

Regarding the A/V receiver I will need a 7.2 and 5.2 channel. Should I go with Marantz, Denon or what would be the optimal brand to go with and model. The AV equipment storage closet will be in the house on the second floor. So, I need to be able to operate the equipment through walls. I'm using a Focal amplifier to assist with the (2) Sub10's.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Well, at least you selected outdoor drivers, so congratulations on that. There are no published Thiele/Small parameters for those drivers. Without that you can not begin to design a loading back box for those drivers. That may not even be possible. Those type of drivers are not often intended to be loaded and are usually pretty rough and ready designs. No very deep bass will come from them in any case.

If you want to load them you would have to make test enclosures and measure the T/S parameters yourself. Then I could possibly design feasible boxes.

You don't usually design and build Hi-Fi systems on patios. They will be rough and ready affairs. If you have close neighbors, then this scheme is a really bad idea right out of the starting gate, and not recommended.

 

[Stealth19]

Well, at least you selected outdoor drivers, so congratulations on that. There are no published Thiele/Small parameters for those drivers. Without that you can not begin to design a loading back box for those drivers. That may not even be possible. Those type of drivers are not often intended to be loaded and are usually pretty rough and ready designs. No very deep bass will come from them in any case.

If you want to load them you would have to make test enclosures and measure the T/S parameters yourself. Then I could possibly design feasible boxes.

You don't usually design and build Hi-Fi systems on patios. They will be rough and ready affairs. If you have close neighbors, then this scheme is a really bad idea right out of the starting gate, and not recommended.

Thanks for the insight. What do you recommend then, since 75% of the design you hate.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the insight. What do you recommend then, since 75% of the design you hate.

Well, I have no idea what to recommend. I have no idea if you are out in the wilderness or in a built up urban area. If the latter,
you have a good chance of getting your collar felt by the local constabulary.

What are you intending to use this system for? Are there interconnections with other systems? I have no idea of your plans or intended usage.

Normally outdoor systems are just low powered background affairs, and not reference listening areas. If high powered, then owners usually become a despised regular nuisance.

 

[Stealth19]

Well, I have no idea what to recommend. I have no idea if you are out in the wilderness or in a built up urban area. If the latter,
you have a good chance of getting your collar felt by the local constabulary.

What are you intending to use this system for? Are there interconnections with other systems? I have no idea of your plans or intended usage.

Normally outdoor systems are just low powered background affairs, and not reference listening areas. If high powered, then owners usually become a despised regular nuisance.

This system will be used for watching sporting events and movies outside under a 1000 square foot covered patio. This will be a stand alone system separated from my interior home system. I will have a 65" and 55" TV outside. The ceiling is vaulted up to.17 'and I want to create a cinematic environment when watching TV outside.

 

[TLS Guy]

This system will be used for watching sporting events and movies outside under a 1000 square foot covered patio. This will be a stand alone system separated from my interior home system. I will have a 65" and 55" TV outside. The ceiling is vaulted up to.17 'and I want to create a cinematic environment when watching TV outside.

You won’t create a cinematic experience with ceiling speakers.

 

[TLS Guy]

This system will be used for watching sporting events and movies outside under a 1000 square foot covered patio. This will be a stand alone system separated from my interior home system. I will have a 65" and 55" TV outside. The ceiling is vaulted up to.17 'and I want to create a cinematic environment when watching TV outside.

Before advising you further I would like to know if you are in an isolated location. When you are proposing will spread the audio far and wide. If you are in any sort of residential area this is not in any way feasible. We are not in the habit of creating or assisting a public nuisance.

 

[Stealth19]

Before advising you further I would like to know if you are in an isolated location. When you are proposing will spread the audio far and wide. If you are in any sort of residential area this is not in any way feasible. We are not in the habit of creating or assisting a public nuisance.

My house sits on a 1/2 acre and there are houses around me. I definitely don't want to be a nuisance to anyone. I will be mindful when listening to the speakers outside. All my neighbors have speaker systems outside and you can hear theirs when they are on. They have them mounted on their houses pointing away from their house to their open yard and pool. At least mine will be pointing down under a covered patio. Hopefully that will help with the sound travel.

 

[TLS Guy]

My house sits on a 1/2 acre and there are houses around me. I definitely don't want to be a nuisance to anyone. I will be mindful when listening to the speakers outside. All my neighbors have speaker systems outside and you can hear theirs when they are on. They have them mounted on their houses pointing away from their house to their open yard and pool. At least mine will be pointing down under a covered patio. Hopefully that will help with the sound travel.

You are about to waste a lot of money.

Cinema is all about telling stories and so speech is paramount. One of the prerequisites is that the sound appears to be coming out of the actors mouths. Clear audible speech is the prime requisite of any cinematic experience.

You can NOT do this with ceiling speakers.

Also with an open air situation bass loss will be enormous. In addition there will be no wall reflections in your system, requiring even larger powers for audibility and annoyance of neighbors.

The only way you could do this is with narrow focus right left and center speakers in front of the audience. This would be a pro type situation using directed sectoral horns, like the old open air cinemas of old. The neighbors are just not going to tolerate this.

If you want open air, my advice is that you use a radio headphone system, like current open air cinemas do.

Lastly for that space your specified screen sizes are far too small.

At the moment you don't have a remotely workable plan for an open cinema, roof excluded.

Honestly home cinemas are marketed and designed for in home use and not outdoors. You are looking for the technology of yesteryear, and that ship has sailed.

 

[everettT]

If you're going outdoors and need plan, contact Meyer Sound, they will be able to show you products suitable for an outdoor Cinema, but it won't be cheap. If you're gonna go down this road, only look for manufacturers that deal with open air all the time, it will make your life easier in the future. Covered helps, but the atmosphere is in play.

As for receivers, something like the Storm ISP can handle two zones of multichannel audio, with all the features you would need. It sounds like you need an installer to me, someone that can guide you through this, and AV installers that sell Storm will be able to get you where you want to be, again not cheap.

 

[highfigh]

Well, at least you selected outdoor drivers, so congratulations on that. There are no published Thiele/Small parameters for those drivers. Without that you can not begin to design a loading back box for those drivers. That may not even be possible. Those type of drivers are not often intended to be loaded and are usually pretty rough and ready designs. No very deep bass will come from them in any case.

If you want to load them you would have to make test enclosures and measure the T/S parameters yourself. Then I could possibly design feasible boxes.

You don't usually design and build Hi-Fi systems on patios. They will be rough and ready affairs. If you have close neighbors, then this scheme is a really bad idea right out of the starting gate, and not recommended.

The specs may not be published for consumers, but the manufacturer probably has them. If it was an off-brand, I wouldn't bet on it but Focal probably does.

WRT not building HiFi systems, you might be surprised how good speakers can sound when they're installed with a back box. I installed a pair of Dynaudio in-ceiling speakers and my first reaction upon hearing the sound was laughter- I had never heard that kind of sound from ANY in-ceiling speaker.

Outdoor speakers can be placed to prevent annoying the neighbors- if they have their own enclosure, they should be aimed toward the house, not away from. Also, using more speakers allows better coverage by each, at lower SPL.

 

[highfigh]

This system will be used for watching sporting events and movies outside under a 1000 square foot covered patio. This will be a stand alone system separated from my interior home system. I will have a 65" and 55" TV outside. The ceiling is vaulted up to.17 'and I want to create a cinematic environment when watching TV outside.

What is the distance to your neighbors? If they're nearby, you're not going to be able to operate at high SPL without complaints and visits from the local PD. The Covered without enclosing won't stop the sound very well, but it will block some. The bass won't be affected very much and that's the part your neighbors will not like.

 

[TLS Guy]

If you're going outdoors and need plan, contact Meyer Sound, they will be able to show you products suitable for an outdoor Cinema, but it won't be cheap. If you're gonna go down this road, only look for manufacturers that deal with open air all the time, it will make your life easier in the future. Covered helps, but the atmosphere is in play.

As for receivers, something like the Storm ISP can handle two zones of multichannel audio, with all the features you would need. It sounds like you need an installer to me, someone that can guide you through this, and AV installers that sell Storm will be able to get you where you want to be, again not cheap.

I agree, he needs a professional installer. In any event this sounds like a system that will case friction with neighbors more likely than not.

Even a boombox is annoying. We have a neighbor not even on our road but at the end of our circle on the adjacent road. In the summer at weekends they are prone to blast it and I think a lot of alcohol flows. We don't hear it in the house, as it is concrete, but if you use the back patio facing away from them, we certainly do hear it. Basically having sound systems outdoors in the situation the OP describes is very bad form in my view.

 

[Stealth19]

You are about to waste a lot of money.

Cinema is all about telling stories and so speech is paramount. One of the prerequisites is that the sound appears to be coming out of the actors mouths. Clear audible speech is the prime requisite of any cinematic experience.

You can NOT do this with ceiling speakers.

Also with an open air situation bass loss will be enormous. In addition there will be no wall reflections in your system, requiring even larger powers for audibility and annoyance of neighbors.

The only way you could do this is with narrow focus right left and center speakers in front of the audience. This would be a pro type situation using directed sectoral horns, like the old open air cinemas of old. The neighbors are just not going to tolerate this.

If you want open air, my advice is that you use a radio headphone system, like current open air cinemas do.

Lastly for that space your specified screen sizes are far too small.

At the moment you don't have a remotely workable plan for an open cinema, roof excluded.

Honestly home cinemas are marketed and designed for in home use and not outdoors. You are looking for the technology of yesteryear, and that ship has sailed.

Thank you for your honesty and I appreciate you taking the time in replying.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you for your honesty and I appreciate you taking the time in replying.

Thank you for your kind words. highfigh is a pro installer.

Home AV is very rewarding. If your house has a space for it that is the place to put home AV. We have a great indoor theater, family and friends like to gather in it.
So, if you want that cinema experience, or the concert hall experience for that matter, then inside the home is the place to do it. Itt will be far better, cheaper and get much more use.

 

[highfigh]

I agree, he needs a professional installer. In any event this sounds like a system that will case friction with neighbors more likely than not.

Even a boombox is annoying. We have a neighbor not even on our road but at the end of our circle on the adjacent road. In the summer at weekends they are prone to blast it and I think a lot of alcohol flows. We don't hear it in the house, as it is concrete, but if you use the back patio facing away from them, we certainly do hear it. Basically having sound systems outdoors in the situation the OP describes is very bad form in my view.

Look at the house with binoculars if that part s visible and check the direction of the speakers- if they're aimed outward, maybe a note explaining the problem and the fact that aiming them toward the house lets them use less power. If they don't want to play nice, you should have options.

I have called the local PD on the guy who lives around the corner because of noise, nasty -smelling smoke from what may be firewood with fungus and other problems. I reached the point where I refer to him as 'the hillbilly' when the dispatcher asks for the noisemaker's name and they always say "OK, we'll send someone over. 40+ years old, he has a lawn service, wears his cap backward and has a mullet haircut.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Look at the house with binoculars if that part s visible and check the direction of the speakers- if they're aimed outward, maybe a note explaining the problem and the fact that aiming them toward the house lets them use less power. If they don't want to play nice, you should have options.

I have called the local PD on the guy who lives around the corner because of noise, nasty -smelling smoke from what may be firewood with fungus and other problems. I reached the point where I refer to him as 'the hillbilly' when the dispatcher asks for the noisemaker's name and they always say "OK, we'll send someone over. 40+ years old, he has a lawn service, wears his cap backward and has a mullet haircut.

Always wondered where Joe dirt ended up!

 

[highfigh]

Always wondered where Joe dirt ended up!

Maybe, but Jamie Pressly isn't this guy's wife or girlfriend.

SE Wisconsin had several 'sightings' of a Cougar and one morning, a local radio newscast mentioned that it had been 'seen' in the small city where I live. I had previously exchanged e-mails with the woman who does the news, so I asked for a specific area and she wrote that it was in the subdivision where I live, so I replied that I thought the Hillbilly had made that claim and gave her the back story.

As I was pulling into my driveway, I saw two people standing on the walkway over the creek and sure enough, it was the Hillbilly and someone from a TV station with a camera.

What a goon.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Maybe, but Jamie Pressly isn't this guy's wife or girlfriend.

SE Wisconsin had several 'sightings' of a Cougar and one morning, a local radio newscast mentioned that it had been 'seen' in the small city where I live. I had previously exchanged e-mails with the woman who does the news, so I asked for a specific area and she wrote that it was in the subdivision where I live, so I replied that I thought the Hillbilly had made that claim and gave her the back story.

As I was pulling into my driveway, I saw two people standing on the walkway over the creek and sure enough, it was the Hillbilly and someone from a TV station with a camera.

What a goon.

 

[Stealth19]

Thank you for your kind words. highfigh is a pro installer.

Home AV is very rewarding. If your house has a space for it that is the place to put home AV. We have a great indoor theater, family and friends like to gather in it.
So, if you want that cinema experience, or the concert hall experience for that matter, then inside the home is the place to do it. Itt will be far better, cheaper and get much more use.

I'm curious what material would I use for backboxes for In-ceiling speakers?