Back to square one...

[Tom Steele]

Well, I called Elegant Audio http://www.elegantaudiovideo.com/default.htm (judging from the charge to my credit card, they used to be Uncle's Stereo Inc. and still do their credit card business as such) and they admitted that they did not have the SPL 1200 II in stock, but should be getting it "in a week or so."

Everyone else I spoke to was honest with me when I ordered and said they did not have it in stock and it would be three weeks.

I asked that they cancel my order and credit my card.

So, I'm looking again.

SVS, HSU, PSB, Outlaw and B&W come to mind right now. I'll dig into the "under $1,000.00 sub" thread as well.

-Tom Steele

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Just a FYI,

Onecall has the CHT-15 for <$500 and the CHT-12 for about $300 if you want to stick with Vel and can handle a little larger enclosure.

The JBL S120ii is also a solid performer...it is around $400.

Tom V.
SVS

 

[cam]

Paradigm PW-2200 $400 watts rms, 1500 watts peak, and it performs down to 18 hz at -3db all for $1000 Canadian pesos.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Tom's being a bit modest, here. His own company, SVS, has some crushing subs for under $1k. Not sure what your budget is, but IMOHO, Hsu & SVS make some of the best subs you can get for the money. The Adire Rava/Dharma are good ones too.

I feel for you. It truly sucks to order something & wait for it only to find it's not in stock.

 

[Tom Steele]

Tom's being a bit modest, here. His own company, SVS, has some crushing subs for under $1k. Not sure what your budget is, but IMOHO, Hsu & SVS make some of the best subs you can get for the money. The Adire Rava/Dharma are good ones too.

I feel for you. It truly sucks to order something & wait for it only to find it's not in stock.

I'm sitting on the "press continue to order" page of the PB2-Plus.

Just as I was about to press the button I thought, "What are the measurements of this thing."

Hmmm, I'm going to seriously have to re-arrange some things if that sub is going to fit.

How long can you run subwoofer cables reliably? I might have to put the thing in the back of the room somewhere.

I have a basement, so I can probably run wiring down through the wall, into the (unfinished) basement joists and back up the back wall and put the thing behind a chair in the corner.

MAN is that a big sub. Wonder if I'd like a single driver sub enough...

Thanks for the sympathies, I'm so sick of trying to decide what to get. After reading the reviews at audioreview.com I had a moment of clarity. There was no doubt in my mind that the SVS PB2-Plus was "the one." Until I measured. It will fit up front, but I'm not sure it will look good there. If it were 24 inches deep I'd be golden. I could pull EVERYTHING off the wall 4 inches and put a fake tree next to the TV to hide the gap...

-Tom Steele

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Hi Tom,

>>>Just as I was about to press the button I thought, "What are the measurements of this thing."<<<

You can view the quasi-anechoic frequency response measurements here...

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/images/performancecharts/pb2plus.jpg

25hz mode = +/- 1.5dB from 23-150hz
20hz mode = +/- 1.5dB from 19-150hz
16hz mode = +/- 1.5dB from 16-150hz

Tom V.
SVS

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Tom's being a bit modest, here. His own company, SVS, has some crushing subs for under $1k.<<<


Thanks Rob..

Also, remember...once you get into this range...you c an double up and go for twin CHT-15s for example. They may not be the most powerful woofer in the first octave(16-32hz)...but a pair of them would surely work very well down to the 27-29hz in most rooms.

Tom V.
SVS

 

[Jason Coleman]

How about a Paradigm Servo-15 now that it's being discontinued? Probably could be had for around $1000 and widely regarded as one of the finest subs in that price range ($1650 new).

Jason

 

[Tom Steele]

Not those measurements!

Hi Tom,

>>>Just as I was about to press the button I thought, "What are the measurements of this thing."<<<

You can view the quasi-anechoic frequency response measurements here...

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/images/performancecharts/pb2plus.jpg

25hz mode = +/- 1.5dB from 23-150hz
20hz mode = +/- 1.5dB from 19-150hz
16hz mode = +/- 1.5dB from 16-150hz

Tom V.
SVS

Tom,

Not THOSE measurements, physical dimensions!

I am sorry to say I made the decision to go with the CHT-15 for now. I was very happy with the sound of the Yamaha YST-800 before it failed, and I think the CHT-15 will equal, or best that sound.

Unfortunately the box size of the SVS sub was what took me out of it. Oddly enough, it would have worked well in my old house. I just moved, and even though I am in a bigger house now, the sub had a nice hidden spot in the old house and now the family room is more open and there are less hiding places.

On the bright side, I have learned a lot about your subs in the past few days and I will have you in mind somewhere in my future!

-Tom Steele

 

[Unregistered]

I personally would have went with the outlaw audio unit. Huge, thunderuss and way deep bass for short money. $579 + $58 shipping. Nothing under $800 can touch it. Velo is a good choice though.

 

[Aliixer]

If velodyn?

make sure its the DD10......costs 2k but well worth it. Thing plays so low and tight.......I use it for my 2-channel music, and for my home theater i use 2 B&W ASW675'S. The B&W's were more cost effective for the movies....

 

[3db]

Tom's being a bit modest, here. His own company, SVS, has some crushing subs for under $1k. Not sure what your budget is, but IMOHO, Hsu & SVS make some of the best subs you can get for the money. The Adire Rava/Dharma are good ones too.

I feel for you. It truly sucks to order something & wait for it only to find it's not in stock.

Its funny that you say that but I've yet to read a review on SVS or HSU from S&V. In the latest subwoofer review, it was PSB Subsonic6i that crushed all of the subs because it had the flattest frequency response and was able to play the loudest across that band. All other subs were relatively peakey compared to the PSB. Sure other subs may have played deeper or louder at a given frequency but not consistantly across their frequency band.

Just a little thing I've noticed

 

[Tom Steele]

I personally would have went with the outlaw audio unit. Huge, thunderuss and way deep bass for short money. $579 + $58 shipping. Nothing under $800 can touch it. Velo is a good choice though.

Well,

It came down to a few things. First, the Outlaw sub is boutique and as such, it is very hard to find a lot of user reviews in one place on it.

Second, I have a CHT-12 in my master bedroom and am pleased with it.

Third, my brother has a CHT-15 and I have listened to his system and thought it sounded pretty good, and he likes it.

Fourth, the price. $507 shipped. In stock, got the UPS tracking # today, so much less hassle than the higher end stuff I'd been looking at.

That said, I seriously would have loved to give the Outlaws, PSB's and several others a listen. And I was "this close" to blowing my budget all out and getting an SVS PSB2 PLUS except for the size. Not that it is too big, it's just too big for where I needed to put it.

Specifically speaking of the Outlaw though, it is a good looking sub by the numbers, but not the "slam dunk certainty" that the SVS PSB2-PLUS would have been. So, for me, not being able to hear it first was a huge liability.

And what the heck, if I decided the CHT-15 was a huge mistake, its not like there isn't a huge used market that sub. I wouldn't lose everything I had in it, and could then upgrade to something more serious.

-Tom Steele

 

[Unregistered]

3db thats funny how you say that about PSB beating Hsu, first time I ever heard that. I went with the Hsu STF2 over the PSB 5i simply because the reviews were much stronger for the Hsu, I hope I did not make the wrong decision. I guess time will tell when I hook it up.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Its funny that you say that but I've yet to read a review on SVS or HSU from S&V. In the latest subwoofer review, it was PSB Subsonic6i that crushed all of the subs because it had the flattest frequency response and was able to play the loudest across that band. All other subs were relatively peakey compared to the PSB. Sure other subs may have played deeper or louder at a given frequency but not consistantly across their frequency band.

Just a little thing I've noticed

The best place for reviews of those subs is probably the HSU & SVS websites. That may not seem the best place for unbiased reviews, but they include links to & reprints of full reviews, warts and all. Their products are good enough that they don't have to edit the reviews! Audio Magazine reviewed the TN1220 about 5-6 years back, and it's probably the most thorough review out there. The mag is now defunct, but you should be able to find the review. I may have mispoke if I implied the SVS had been reviewed by S&V; it hasn't that I'm aware of. But there are a couple of rags that have, and a lot of reviews by online magazines.

S&V did a 2 part test spread over 2 issues of a variety of subs a couple years back. I'll see if I can still find it (I generally don't throw old audio rags out, but I also have so organized storage method- I should work on that). In their test the large, tubular Adire sub was one of the top tested for max SPL, but the test didn't include the SVS Cylinders nor the HSU TN series.

Subwoofer reviews can be a bit tricky- it's not easy to measure the response without room gain. It can be done correctly in an anechoic chamber, but very few reviewers have that kind of resources. S&V performed their measurements out doors, which is an creative way of solving the problem.

One excellent place for reviews is
Ecoustics. They have a comprehensive reviews section that compiles thousand of reviews, both professional ones & user reviews. It's a fantastic resource if you're shopping for gear.

 

[3db]

Psb

3db thats funny how you say that about PSB beating Hsu, first time I ever heard that. I went with the Hsu STF2 over the PSB 5i simply because the reviews were much stronger for the Hsu, I hope I did not make the wrong decision. I guess time will tell when I hook it up.

Maybe I wasn't clear ...In the last subwoofer roundup that S&V did (last month's issues with a picture of the actor of Hildago on it) , the Subsonic6i had the flattest frequency response of all subs in tthat group and played the loudest across that spread. Some subs were able to play louder and some deeper but none could match the flat response of the PSB sub. Everyone gets hung up on how low or how load a sub can play. Big deal. If the sub plays really loud say at 25 HZ and gets really peaky at 40 - 60 Hz, then your going to have an integration nightmare on your hands. Like a speaker, the curve should be as flat as possible across its operating spectrum. The Subsonic6i did this the most consistently of all subs in that group.

About SVS/HSU . not knocking them but they are not the last word in subwoofers. Last year Totem's Thunder bested an SVS and an HSU sub in a roundup done by Home Theater.

Point I'm trying to make is shop around and don't just rely on past events. Manufacturers are alway goinng to try and outdo one another. Its what make this whole audio thing that much more insane and fun

 

[Unregistered]

Just a point of clarification regarding statements that the PSB 6i beat the Hsu subwoofer, here is the link below. The Hsu was not one of the subs involved in the article. BTW the article was informative only and was not a "shoot out" nor did the writers compare the subs other than to describe the testing.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=5&article_id=663&page_number=1&preview=

The subs tested were: PSB 6i, Canton AS 50 SC, Earthquake Super Nova MK-IV 10, Energy S12.3, Infinity SW-12, JBL S120P II, Outlaw Audio LFM-1, Phase Technology HV-1000, RBH MS-10.1 and Velodyne DPS-12.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I have that issue in my hands right now, 3db (after reading your post, I dug it out; the shootout runs Oct & Nov '03). The Totem was ranked very highly. However, I think your memory is a bit off; no SVS or Hsu subs were included in the shootout. Perhaps you're confusing them with the cylindrical sub from Adire, the Sadhara. They do look a lot alike. At any rate, the author, Keith Yates, concluded that of the models in the shootout, his choice would be a pair of subs: 2 of the Totems or Triads if he could afford it, 2 JBLs or Adire Sadharas after that. [I'd also interject that the Totem sub cost $1500 with the base finish; that sum would get you a pair of HSUs best & the 500 Watt amp, or a pair of SVS subs with the amp.]

There are many published reviews of the Hsu & SVS subs, complete with detailed freq plots and waterfall graphs. Their outputs are quite smooth (I'm referring to the tube subs). Having uniform output is the goal, but of course there's going to be a lot of peakiness in a real room regardless.

I have no stake in what anyone buys, and Hsu isn't cutting me a check each month for referrals. I do own Hsu's, so take my words with a grain of salt if you wish. But I can say by the measurements of all the subs in the S&V and Home Theater tests, neither HSU nor SVS has much to worry about. Sonically I've heard no serious rival to them, but admittedly there's a few others I'd love to try (specifically, the offerings of VMPS).

I think not nearly enough is made of the very low freq response. 25 hz is pretty good, but that's really the beginning point unless your sub is for HT only. It's nice to have really solid output down under 20 hz- it's called a subwoofer, after all.

Again, there's lots of other great subs out there, and it would be pretty boring if we all had the same gear. I don't mean to quibble over details but I did want to set the record straight as to that particular magazine feature.

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

>>>Maybe I wasn't clear ...In the last subwoofer roundup that S&V did (last month's issues with a picture of the actor of Hildago on it) , the Subsonic6i had the flattest frequency response of all subs in tthat group and played the loudest across that spread. Some subs were able to play louder and some deeper but none could match the flat response of the PSB sub.<<<

The PSB was 30-118 +/- 2.5dB
The Energy was 29-113 +/-2.2dB
The Outlaw was 20-73 +/- 2.0dB

So other subs went just as deep( and even slightly deeper) with a flatter curve. All 3 did well very well though.



>>>>About SVS/HSU . not knocking them but they are not the last word in subwoofers. Last year Totem's Thunder bested an SVS and an HSU sub in a roundup done by Home Theater.<<<<

SVS has never been reviewed by Home Theater.

Tom V.
SVS

 

[cam]

Hey Rob

I have that issue in my hands right now, 3db (after reading your post, I dug it out; the shootout runs Oct & Nov '03). The Totem was ranked very highly. However, I think your memory is a bit off; no SVS or Hsu subs were included in the shootout. Perhaps you're confusing them with the cylindrical sub from Adire, the Sadhara. They do look a lot alike. At any rate, the author, Keith Yates, concluded that of the models in the shootout, his choice would be a pair of subs: 2 of the Totems or Triads if he could afford it, 2 JBLs or Adire Sadharas after that. [I'd also interject that the Totem sub cost $1500 with the base finish; that sum would get you a pair of HSUs best & the 500 Watt amp, or a pair of SVS subs with the amp.]

There are many published reviews of the Hsu & SVS subs, complete with detailed freq plots and waterfall graphs. Their outputs are quite smooth (I'm referring to the tube subs). Having uniform output is the goal, but of course there's going to be a lot of peakiness in a real room regardless.

I have no stake in what anyone buys, and Hsu isn't cutting me a check each month for referrals. I do own Hsu's, so take my words with a grain of salt if you wish. But I can say by the measurements of all the subs in the S&V and Home Theater tests, neither HSU nor SVS has much to worry about. Sonically I've heard no serious rival to them, but admittedly there's a few others I'd love to try (specifically, the offerings of VMPS).

I think not nearly enough is made of the very low freq response. 25 hz is pretty good, but that's really the beginning point unless your sub is for HT only. It's nice to have really solid output down under 20 hz- it's called a subwoofer, after all.

Again, there's lots of other great subs out there, and it would be pretty boring if we all had the same gear. I don't mean to quibble over details but I did want to set the record straight as to that particular magazine feature.

I have always heard over and over again how good Hsu and SVS subs are. I have a Paradigm PW-2200 v2 and I have always been curious how my sub compares. I know of no one who has a Hsu or SVS to hear for myself. If you have any information I would like to hear it. I'm only talking about pure performance and not performance per dollar. Thanks.