J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
I live in Portland, OR and I'm buying some in-wall / in-ceiling speakers for my house that's being built.

Right now I'm thinking about some B&W 663's (3 of them . . . 2 fronts and a center) and then 2 CCM 616's for my rear speakers (in-ceiling). They price I've been quoted for that setup is $1475 (that includes installation).

I'm also thinking about the Paradigm AMS-250's (3 of them . . . 2 fronts and center) and then 2 AMS 100's for the rear speakers (in-ceiling). The price I've been quoted for this setup is $1460 (including installation).

These prices seem a bit high to me--but then again I don't purchase speakers that often. Of course I'd prefer speakers that aren't in-wall, but my wife is adamant that the speakers should be hidden.

I have a Denon receiver (80 wps) that's about 8 years old.

Any thoughts on which deal is better? Or are there other, better ways to go? The speakers wires are already wired, so location can't be changed much. The front three speakers will be about 6 feet high on the front wall and the rears will be in the ceiling.

I've listened to all the speakers and can't really tell which I like more. They both sound pretty good to me. It's hard because I'm listening to them in a nice acoustically perfect showroom which doesn't really resemble my living room. Then, after listening to one set one day, then the next set the next day--it's hard to make a comparison. My "ear memory" isn't that good!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
No one's "ear memory" is good, acoustic memory is short term.

Are these the only two brands you've listened to?

Have you listened to Triad or Speakercraft?
 
J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
I'm going to listen to RBH as well

There's another dealer in the area that sells RBH. I am planning on listening to them too but for the time being I have only listened to the Paradigms and the B&Ws. Both sounded good to me but the price still seems a bit high. Of course Paradigm and B&W have some cheaper options but I wasn't overly impressed with the sound of those offerings.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
There's another dealer in the area that sells RBH. I am planning on listening to them too but for the time being I have only listened to the Paradigms and the B&Ws. Both sounded good to me but the price still seems a bit high. Of course Paradigm and B&W have some cheaper options but I wasn't overly impressed with the sound of those offerings.
Well give the RBH a chance, they are well regarded among members here. I personally don't have experience with their products.
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
Try to listen to Sonance and Speakercraft before you pull the trigger.
 
J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
I will attempt to listen to more brands

I know the company that's selling the Paradigms also sells Speakercraft. I'll give those a listen--but it's funny--the salesperson there never even mentioned the Speakercrafts--but I know I saw them there. I'm not sure of anyone in the area that sells Sonance. I'll look around a bit more.

Does anyone think the deals I've mentioned are "within the ballpark" or should I be able to get a better deal? Thanks.
 
J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
Another Options

I called the Sonance dealer in town and was very un-impressed with the service I was getting over the phone so I probably won't go that route. I don't feel like dealing with people who don't have my best interests in mind.

I found another company, Aperion, who has a showroom here in Portland. I am interested in their in-wall offerings, but I'm wondering how they compare with Paradigm, B&W, RBH, etc.

They have the Intimus 6-IW which is a 6 1/2" woofer with a silk dome tweeter. These speakers are $149 each and I like that price. I haven't listened to them yet. Does anyone have any experience with them?

There's also the Intimus 6-LCR which has dual 6.5" woofers w/ the same tweeter as the 6-IW. I'd have to install the center as a vertical speaker though because they're 19" long.

Anyone have any experience with these Aperions? Also, is $1500 a good deal for the Paradigms / B&W's I mentioned earlier (that's with install).

Thanks for any and all help.
 
J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
hmmmmm

Am I doing something wrong here? Anyone?

I have more questions. Can I use a smaller center and larger left / right speakers as long as they have the same drivers, etc?

Any help on any of my questions would be much appreciated.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
You're not doing anything wrong.

Aperian is pretty well regarded. What really counts is how you perceive their value which falls into the sound/cost ratio. You may listen to them and be very impressed and wonder why you would have ever thought of spending so much on the B&W or Paradigm systems, who knows. You have to listen them to find out for yourself. It sounds like your options are wide open though.:)
 
J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
I'll keep searching

Thanks for the help Seth.

I guess I was looking for recommendations from people who have tried or possibly had experience with any of these in-wall speakers.

I am pretty new to all this so I have questions and I'm having a hard time making up my mind. There are so many brands / models / types of speakers out there that it's really driving me mad.

Anyway, I'll repeat a few of my questions.

Can you install 2 large speakers (left and right) and a smaller center as long as the drivers / tweeters are the same?

Is it OK to install three tall speakers in the front (and use the center in a vertical position like the side speakers) or is it necessary to have the center speaker in a horizontal alignment?

Thanks for any and all help. Thank you again, Seth.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Thanks for the help Seth.

I guess I was looking for recommendations from people who have tried or possibly had experience with any of these in-wall speakers.

I am pretty new to all this so I have questions and I'm having a hard time making up my mind. There are so many brands / models / types of speakers out there that it's really driving me mad.

Anyway, I'll repeat a few of my questions.

Can you install 2 large speakers (left and right) and a smaller center as long as the drivers / tweeters are the same?

Is it OK to install three tall speakers in the front (and use the center in a vertical position like the side speakers) or is it necessary to have the center speaker in a horizontal alignment?

Thanks for any and all help. Thank you again, Seth.
It is ideal to have all 3 front speakers to match and be aligned vertically.

Usually speakers from the same series will be timbre matched, even at difference sizes. You still should try to keep them as close in size and frequency operation as possible, or in the frequency range they'll be used in.

I know it's overwhelming the selection, but now I'm going to repeat myself (in a way).

We could all sit here and tell you which speakers we think sound best, but what I or someone else likes may not be what you like. Most people would also spend a lot more on this type of installation than I would. I would certainly want to demo those Aperion speakers if I were in your position. If you had a tough time discerning any major differences or advantages between the B&W and Paradigm speakers I think you owe it to yourself to try to compare them as best you can to the Aperion. Why spend all the extra money if you don't feel the extra cost is necessary or warranted.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Other inwall speaker manufacturers ..PSB and Russoud.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for the help Seth.

I guess I was looking for recommendations from people who have tried or possibly had experience with any of these in-wall speakers.

I am pretty new to all this so I have questions and I'm having a hard time making up my mind. There are so many brands / models / types of speakers out there that it's really driving me mad.
Aperion is well regarded around here. As with any internet direct brand though, not many of us have really heard their speakers.

Sometimes IMO, it is in fact worthwhile to just pick a speaker below budget and just take the leap of faith. Silly as that may sound, if it is difficult to decide on simply because you don't know what to listen for, why spend more just yet. What you'll probably find is that if it's a good speaker, it's a good speaker. Once you've grown with that speaker, your tastes will develop and you'll gain a feel for what's missing. Even in-walls can be swapped out - this doesn't need to be a lifetime investment.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
Audition for yourself because none of us hear the same. What sounds good to one may sound bad to another and visa versa. Trust your ears and what you like. :)
 
J

jimbobby

Enthusiast
I'm fortunate . . .

I'm very fortunate that I live in Portland and I have the opportunity to listen to Aperion's speakers.

I was able to check out a lot of their speakers and I was pretty impressed. I honestly believe the speakers sounded nearly as good as the Paradigm AMS-250 and the B&W . . . um . . . well, I forget the model # but it was their newer in-wall w/ the 5" woofer.

I mostly listened to the 6-IW's and 2 6-IC's in the ceiling behind me. I was able to crank the sound up LOUD with a marantz receiver and the sound was clear and bright -- but not tinny or painful to listen to. Very smooth. Very immersive.

I'm no pro but I do have a fairly discerning ear. For $750 I can get 3 fronts (6-IW) and 2 rear in-ceiling speakers (6-IC). That's significantly cheaper than the Paradigms or the B&W's and I think they sound comparable. I was actually very impressed. The speakers sounded as good to me (midrange and treble) than the bookshelf speakers next to them. Perhaps a bit less "tight" (if that makes any sense) but the highs were just as clear and bright.

I'm excited to get these installed. I'll post back again once I have them in my house. I'm going to pair them with my 90 watt per channel Denon. I think we'll be pretty satisfied. I hope. I'm used to my Paradigms that I've had for the last few years (2 Monitors up front with a big center and dipole rears) and I don't think they'll be that good. But I was really impressed today. I hope I'm making the right decision.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I'm very fortunate that I live in Portland and I have the opportunity to listen to Aperion's speakers.

I was able to check out a lot of their speakers and I was pretty impressed. I honestly believe the speakers sounded nearly as good as the Paradigm AMS-250 and the B&W . . . um . . . well, I forget the model # but it was their newer in-wall w/ the 5" woofer.

I mostly listened to the 6-IW's and 2 6-IC's in the ceiling behind me. I was able to crank the sound up LOUD with a marantz receiver and the sound was clear and bright -- but not tinny or painful to listen to. Very smooth. Very immersive.

I'm no pro but I do have a fairly discerning ear. For $750 I can get 3 fronts (6-IW) and 2 rear in-ceiling speakers (6-IC). That's significantly cheaper than the Paradigms or the B&W's and I think they sound comparable. I was actually very impressed. The speakers sounded as good to me (midrange and treble) than the bookshelf speakers next to them. Perhaps a bit less "tight" (if that makes any sense) but the highs were just as clear and bright.

I'm excited to get these installed. I'll post back again once I have them in my house. I'm going to pair them with my 90 watt per channel Denon. I think we'll be pretty satisfied. I hope. I'm used to my Paradigms that I've had for the last few years (2 Monitors up front with a big center and dipole rears) and I don't think they'll be that good. But I was really impressed today. I hope I'm making the right decision.
Sweet. Congrats!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
jimbobby said:
I'm no pro but I do have a fairly discerning ear. For $750 I can get 3 fronts (6-IW) and 2 rear in-ceiling speakers (6-IC). That's significantly cheaper than the Paradigms or the B&W's and I think they sound comparable. I was actually very impressed.
This is precisely why I thought you should check them out, because there was a significant chance they would not sound dramatically different or better than the far more costly models from Paradigm and B&W.

Now just pay me the dividend.:D
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Another manufacturer who makes great in-walls is Axiom. Aperion is a great choice as their speakers are excellent.
 
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