b&w nautlis 802/805 or what

[tbee]

<font color='#000000'>i recently did some audio recording with B&amp;W nautlis 805 but they did not have much low end. i heard the nautlis 802 loved them . Does anyone know of any loudspeaker equal to the quality and accuracy of the Nautlis 802 but with lower price tag. 802- 4000 per speaker

My room is abt 21 x 19 x 8</font>

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

<font color='#000000'>OK, I'm going to go out on a long limb here....

I think it isn't always true that &quot;you get what you pay for&quot; in audio, since there are both bargains and rip-offs at nearly every price point, but a well-designed speaker that is really worth it's price like many B&amp;Ws are will be hard to beat for much less.

But...I did read a glowing review a couple of issues back in The Audio Critic about the now-discontinued Infinity IL-40. The reviewer, whom I respect, was over the moon with its measured accuracy both on-axis and off (TAC does actual measurements) and sound quality. He said it was awfully close to his $15k 'reference' speakers. And evidently the speaker was well recieved &amp; is still sought after on the used market. They were $998 a pair new. I've seen them for around $500/pr used. I was strongly considering them before deciding to go the DIY route.

So that's one possibility. Maybe. Mind you, I never managed to hear them myself. YMMV and all that. Boy, this limb is shaky!</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I listened to a few speakers in this range when I was shopping two years ago. The clear winner for me was the Vandersteen 3A signature at 3500/pr. They are very neutral and have a dead flat +/- 1.5dB response fron 26Hz to beyond 21kHz. They throw the most incredible soundstage I've ever heard, from sidewall to sidewall and about ten feet back of the speakers. I have two subs for them but they really don't need them for music. They are fast speakers but on the ineffecient side at 89 dB. 200W/ch is no problem. They fill my 15 x 20 x 8 foot room with sound very nicely at that level of amplification even without the subs. They are time-phase correct which some of us feel is very important, it's a subject unto itself. On the down side, they are not so attractive especially to the wives and the sweet spot is small- about good for two people side by side. They require careful positioning, more than most and must be biwired. Good discounts are difficult to get. Used models are around as these have been made for a while. The 2CE model is 1500/pr but lacks on the high end. I love these as no other I've ever heard. I listened to B&amp;W, Martin Logan, Ariel Acoustic, Totems, Meadowlarks,Thiels, and Monitor Audio(silver series-not the gold) in this price range. Happy hunting.</font>

 

[EdR]

<font color='#000000'>Von Schweikert's would also be well worth checking out in this price range.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>For less money, I love my MB Quarts. B&amp;W was my top pick out of all speakers I auditioned. That sound quality comes at a high cost. Also, I don't know what they would sound like on a A/V receiver. Like most high-end shops, they were on some pretty heavy power!

I put my Quarts on an amp today. Let me tell you, I would put them up against any speaker at twice the price. The bass is great. Not room shaking bass, but great sounding bass. The bass has such a high quality sound, that I don't even use the sub now. The sub takes away from the quality of the sound.</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>Zumbo,
It sounds as though you need a new sub.

To the original poster, did you give the 804's or 803's a listen? They are very nice monitors with much more bass than the 805's. The als cost a bit less than the 802's.</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Heck man, I just bought this one!

In 2-channel playback, it just seems to be better without the sub. I love the solid sound without the room shaking!</font>

 

[ED27]

<font color='#000000'>I have the 805's running on a Rotel RSX-1065 (rated at 100x5) and I love the sound. &nbsp;I use a Velodyne HGS10.II to reinforce the low end. &nbsp;The result is a very seamless, musical sound that outperforms the 803 and 804 (IMO) and comes close to the performance of the 802 but at a much cheaper price. &nbsp;Tonal balance, imaging and soundstaging are awesome.

I had the opportunity to demo the 805s on various receivers (Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer Elite and Mcintosh). &nbsp;I went with the Rotel because it represented the best value/performance ratio. &nbsp;The Japanese brands bettered the Rotel is terms of dynamics but in my subjective opinion, they did not sound as good with music and 5.1 audio. &nbsp;The Mcintosh sounded great as well but wasn't worth an extra $2K over the Rotel.</font>

 

[RLA]

<font color='#000000'>NHT SW12 powered sub is on you equipment list

This sub was and still is a very good subwoofer for music
and was all the rave a few years ago &nbsp;even the DIY crowd
used the now Famous NHT 12” driver for there DIY subs
I made one myself with dual NHT 12” drivers in a sealed 4.5 CU^3 enclosure the X-Max was very high for this driver &nbsp;and the FS was very low at the time it was produced. It has great pitch and definition &nbsp;and low end extension The one thing it lacks however &nbsp;is high output &nbsp;But if It cant keep up with the MB Quarts I would say you have a problem with placement in your room and not the subwoofer &nbsp;you may have the sub placed &nbsp;in a location that
will produce a Dip &nbsp;in the key frequencies at your listening position &nbsp;correct &nbsp;Subwoofer placement in rooms is critical for the best performance If you don't have access to an Analyzer then experimentation will need to be done with a
low frequency sweep and a spl meter or use your ears to determine the best spot
Cheers</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>The sub kicks @$$! I love it. I just prefer, when listening to a basic 2-channel cd, the Quarts by theirself. I have a dvd-audio player, but haven't bought any music for it yet. I am sure I will enjoy it then. For now, I am loving the sound that comes from these speakers without any help from the sub!

</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>I would also second the Velodyne HGS10.II, as I own one. Excellent subwoofer.

</font>

 

[RLA]

<font color='#000000'>Hi
If you have the older NHT 12&quot; subwoofer that incorperates this driver &nbsp;the NHT 1259 &nbsp;then going to the Velodyne HGS 10
would be a &nbsp;BIG step backwards (IMOHO)
I dont know how the new NHT 12&quot; subwoofer with its Aluminum driver would compair the the Velodyne

NHT 1259 T/S

Effective cone diam. &nbsp; &nbsp;D: &nbsp; &nbsp; 20.00 cm &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;7.87 in.
&nbsp; Maximum linear excursion Xmax: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1.50 cm &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.59 in.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Bl product &nbsp; Bl: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;7.50 N/A
&nbsp; Voice coil dc resistance &nbsp; Re: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;3.40 Ohms
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mechanical mass &nbsp; Md: &nbsp; &nbsp; 32.00 gm
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mechanical compliance &nbsp;Cms: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1.52 e-3 m/N
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Mechanical losses &nbsp;Rms: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1.55 kg/s

Nominal impedance &nbsp; &nbsp; 6 ohms
Maximum music power &nbsp; 300 watts
Frequency range &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19-1000 Hz &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
Sensitivity &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 90 dB SPL @ 2.83 VRMS @ 1 meter
Voice coil inductance 1.2 mH
Voice coil diameter &nbsp; 50 mm
Voice coil height &nbsp; &nbsp; 34 mm
Air gap height &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;8 mm
Magnet weight &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 59 oz

THIELE/SMALL PARAMETERS
&nbsp; &nbsp;Effective cone diameter &nbsp; &nbsp;d: &nbsp; &nbsp; 20.00 cm
&nbsp; Maximum linear excursion Xmax: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1.30 cm
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Resonant frequency &nbsp; F0: &nbsp; &nbsp; 19.00 Hz
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Equivalent volume &nbsp;Vas: &nbsp; &nbsp;190.00 L &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 6.71 cu. ft
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Mechanical Q &nbsp;Qms: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2.60 &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Electrical Q &nbsp;Qes: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.56 &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Total Q &nbsp;Qts: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.46 &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Reference efficiency &nbsp; n0: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.22 %
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Output level&lt; SPL: &nbsp; &nbsp; 85.52 dB SPL
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Effective area &nbsp; Sd: &nbsp; &nbsp;507.00 sq. cm
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Maximum displacement &nbsp; Vd: &nbsp; &nbsp;408.41 cu. cm
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Krm: &nbsp; &nbsp; 28.89
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kxm: &nbsp; &nbsp; 26.67
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Erm: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .584
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Exm: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; .647

PERFORMANCE COMPARISONS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CLOSED &nbsp; &nbsp;REFLEX &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Enclosure volume &nbsp; Vb: &nbsp; &nbsp; 88.62 &nbsp; &nbsp;299.21 L
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3dB frequency &nbsp; F3: &nbsp; &nbsp; 32.43 &nbsp; &nbsp; 15.56 Hz
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Peak response ripple &nbsp; Rh: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.00 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.04 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum acoustic output &nbsp;Par: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.15 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.03 W
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum SPL &nbsp;SPL: &nbsp; &nbsp;100.88 &nbsp; &nbsp; 94.14 dB SPL
&nbsp; Maximum electrical input &nbsp;Per: &nbsp; &nbsp; 68.57 &nbsp; &nbsp; 14.52 W

FREQUENCY RESPONSE
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Intervals per octave &nbsp; 6.0
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; CLOSED &nbsp; &nbsp;REFLEX
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Starting frequency &nbsp;15.9 &nbsp; &nbsp;-12.66 &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.21 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17.8 &nbsp; &nbsp;-10.78 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.77 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20.0 &nbsp; &nbsp; -8.99 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.27 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22.4 &nbsp; &nbsp; -7.29 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.13 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 25.2 &nbsp; &nbsp; -5.73 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.09 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 28.3 &nbsp; &nbsp; -4.36 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.07 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 31.7 &nbsp; &nbsp; -3.20 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.05 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 35.6 &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.27 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.03 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 40.0 &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.56 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.02 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 44.9 &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.05 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.01 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50.4 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.69 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.00 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 56.6 &nbsp; &nbsp; -0.45 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.00 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
CLOSED BOX DESIGN &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Desired system Q &nbsp;Qtc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.71
&nbsp; &nbsp; Recommended box volume &nbsp; Vb: &nbsp; &nbsp; 88.62 L &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.13 cu. ft
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Enclosure damping &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;3.00 (0 - 5)
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tuning ratio &nbsp; &nbsp;a: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1.91
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; System resonance &nbsp; Fc: &nbsp; &nbsp; 32.43 Hz
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Actual system Q &nbsp;Qtc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.71
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3dB frequency &nbsp; F3: &nbsp; &nbsp; 32.43 Hz
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Peak response ripple &nbsp; Rh: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.00 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum acoustic output &nbsp;Par: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.15 W
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum SPL &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;100.88 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum input power &nbsp;Par: &nbsp; &nbsp; 68.57 W
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
VENTED BOX DESIGN (NOT RECOMMENDED!!!)
&nbsp; &nbsp; Recommended box volume &nbsp; Vb: &nbsp; &nbsp;299.21 L &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;10.57 cu. ft
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tuning ratio &nbsp; &nbsp;a: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.64
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Enclosure resonance &nbsp; Fb: &nbsp; &nbsp; 16.50 Hz
&nbsp;Recommended vent diameter &nbsp; Dv: &nbsp; &nbsp; 20.05 cm &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;7.89 in.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Desired vent diameter &nbsp; Dv: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;5.08 cm &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;2.00 in.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Vent length &nbsp; Lv: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;3.73 cm &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1.47 in.
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3dB Frequency &nbsp; F3: &nbsp; &nbsp; 15.56 Hz
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Peak response ripple &nbsp; Rh: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.04 dB
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Max. acoustic output &nbsp;Par: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;0.03 W
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum SPL &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 94.14 dB SPL
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Maximum input power &nbsp;Per: &nbsp; &nbsp; 14.52 W</font>

 

[zumbo]

<font color='#000000'>Who is looking for a sub?

 This question is about mains!

</font>

 

[RLA]

<font color='#000000'>A couple of posts suggested a new sub &nbsp;I just thought I would put my 0.2 cents &nbsp;in
As for the Mains &nbsp;go audition a pair of RBH 1266SE towers
after you listen to the B&amp;W's and all others
They have been compaired in the recent past to speakers such as the Osborn Epitome MK IV &nbsp;an $8500 speaker
www.rbhsound.com</font>

 

[annunaki]

<font color='#000000'>The Velodyne has a flatter more extended frequency response when compared to the NHT. The HGS-10 is capable of 20hz-120hz +-3db. Where as the NHT is already down -3db at 32 hz. In a sealed enclosure, the NHT would be down at least -12db at 16hz, and at least -24db in a ported enclosure at the same frequency (16hz). The Velodyne on the other hand, IF it is down -3db at 20 hz would be down -12db at roughly 10hz. Being servo controlled, the HGS-10 will also never go into audible distortion. The parameters on the NHT do look pretty good. In the space that ONE NHT takes up I could use THREE HGS-10's! By the way, have you directly compared the two? I have not had that opportunity, however, on paper the Velodyne has an advantage. With a deeper response curve that is probably just as flat. I own one (velodyne) and have listened to many higher end subs. It is by far the best sub I have listened to with reguards to music as well as movies. I have heard things (very low in the audible spectrum, i.e. sub 30 hz) with this ten that I have not heard with other companies fifteens!
Sorry that this does not pertain to the original post. Also I am not saying that the NHT is a bad sub.</font>

 

[mustang_steve]

<font color='#000000'>Heh, Zumbo is in the same boat I am...

I love my Yamaha 215 sub, but with my BR-1 speakers, all the sub adds is a very slight tightening of the bass at low volumes, but at high volumes becomes a tad bit too noticeable.

Since I'm a 2-channel person, even for movies...i just unhooked the sub. &nbsp;Still sitting around...I need to put an ad for it in the paper, along with most of my old gear.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Have you look at Mackie HR824? &nbsp;I own a pair of them and they're absolutely stunning. &nbsp;A friend of mine, who happens to have a small recording studio, also own HR824. &nbsp;He said it's the best investment he made so far. &nbsp;The retail for HR824 is $1400, but you can found them in ebay for less than $1100.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>i have a pair of 805's with very high end front end electronics--they are fabulous down to around 60Hz--I recently added a pair of NHT evolution subs with the A-1 / /X-1 electornics. Overall now the system has no peers--tested clean +/- 2Db from 25Hz to 21kHz in my room! &nbsp;Total price for both subs was under $1,300.</font>

 

[abe]

<font color='#000000'>--
if you don't mind buying used ...  

There is a pair of &nbsp;Wilson WATT/Puppy 5.1 &nbsp;on sale on Audiogon for $5500.   Sounds pretty good comparing to the B&amp;W802 at $8000.


Abe</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>How about the Energy C-9, or large Veritas series. &nbsp;Muuuch cheaper than the B&amp;W.

Are you sacrificing some sound quality - Maybe. &nbsp;But for low-distortion, accurate full-range speakers at an incredibly good price point they are hard to beat. &nbsp;If you get a chance at least give them a listen. &nbsp;Sometimes they are even heavily discounted. &nbsp;And they look good in person.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/energy_c9.htm</font>