B&W N802 vs. Wilson Sophia

B

BuzzedHornet

Audiophyte
I have always been in love with the Wilson Watt Puppy's but they have always been out of my price range. I also love the B&W 802's and they are in my range. Now Wilson has the Sophia, I haven't listened to these yet.

Anyone out there listen to the 802's side by side with the Sophia's? I will have to drive a few hours to listen to the Sophia's and want to know if it is worth my time. I know I like the 802's but the punch and slam of Wilson is hard to beat, atleast with the Watt Puppy's.

They will be connected to SL2500 Cal Audio Lab's stack. Since I am only using this Hometheater system as a 2 channel system, I have extra amp channels and I plan to bi wire the speakers. I use Transparent Reference cables and Transparent Power Conditioning. However I don't like the colorization of the power blocks and I am looking for new ones.

I listen to everything from Jazz, Grateful Dead to hard heavy rock. I listen above reference SPL (85 - 95db), when the wife and kids aren't home. But it is important that the system sounds great at low levels too.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
I would go with the 802 and add an equalizer. The 802 has very good power response(a summed aspect of multi-point off axis response), and has a superbly engineered cabinet that appears to deal with stored energy very effectively. The measurements of this speaker from third parties indicate an unusually clean spectral decay vs. time plot and a very flat frequency response. Use of minimal room treatments and addition of an E.Q. will provide for a superb reproduction system. Please be aware that I am partially biased -- I love the *look* of the Nautilus 802N. :)

I recommend a Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer, or even better, a Behringer DCX2496 crossover, regardless of which speaker you choose. The crossover has an E.Q. section, and can be utilized as only an E.Q., but it's GUI for control when combined with a computer for setup are extremely convenient. You can fine tune bass for the flattest in-room response and add subtle filters to fine tune treble and midrange, as well. This is a crossover, primarily, but you will have the ultimate flexibility in using it to integrate subwoofers as ideally as is possible in the future, if needed. Please do not confuse the equalizer functions in these devices mentioned with the common conception of 'E.Q.', that is usually associated with the typical 10 band graphic equlizer or similar that used to be common on stereo equipment. The devices I recommend will not add any audible levels of distortion or noise if you use them correctly, and are highly accurate devices, despite their sensible prices!

-Chris



BuzzedHornet said:
I have always been in love with the Wilson Watt Puppy's but they have always been out of my price range. I also love the B&W 802's and they are in my range. Now Wilson has the Sophia, I haven't listened to these yet.

Anyone out there listen to the 802's side by side with the Sophia's? I will have to drive a few hours to listen to the Sophia's and want to know if it is worth my time. I know I like the 802's but the punch and slam of Wilson is hard to beat, atleast with the Watt Puppy's.

They will be connected to SL2500 Cal Audio Lab's stack. Since I am only using this Hometheater system as a 2 channel system, I have extra amp channels and I plan to bi wire the speakers. I use Transparent Reference cables and Transparent Power Conditioning. However I don't like the colorization of the power blocks and I am looking for new ones.

I listen to everything from Jazz, Grateful Dead to hard heavy rock. I listen above reference SPL (85 - 95db), when the wife and kids aren't home. But it is important that the system sounds great at low levels too.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
cbraver said:
As long as your recommending electronics, M&K makes awesome bass management systems I highly recommend.

http://www.mksound.com/filters-bass_mgmt.php

-Chad
This unit appears to be simply a 2 way crossover. The DCX unit I recommend is a powerful and versatile processor, where as the unit to which you linked appears to have a singular function.

If surround sound management is needed(as is implied by the additional inputs on the unit you referenced), the DCX can be daisy chained to additional units and networked to add as many managed channels as is required.

-Chris
 
B

BuzzedHornet

Audiophyte
Chris,

Yes I love the look of the 802's as well. They are sexy as hell. They just never had the deep impact that I like. At first when you mentioned EQ I did in fact think of a standard 10 band type EQ and there is now way I would introduce that into my system. However a EQ / Crossover idea apeals to me. It would be much easier to "sell" the wife on the B&W's over the Wilson box look.

Since my first post I have learned about the new 802D. I buddy of mine in the industry says the B&W 802D sounds like a completely new speaker. He thinks I will like the sound a bunch better than the N802's. So I may get away without an EQ. Do you know if you can audition the EQ you are speaking of? Does it take a engineer to set up? If it is something I can set up with my RTA and I can give it a test run, it would be fun to check out. How much are they? The new 802D has a new 1st order tweeter crossover that just smokes, so I don't know if I want to change that.

Thanks for your ideas and thoughts. I will listen to the 802D this weekend and if they blow me away like I expect, I will forget the Wilsons and just go for it. You can shop forever, but at some point it is time to say f&^k it and start listening! The new 802D's are 12K instead of 8K for the N802's. If the wife makes me sleep on the couch, at least I will have good tunes.

Rob
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
BuzzedHornet said:
Chris,

Yes I love the look of the 802's as well. They are sexy as hell. They just never had the deep impact that I like. At first when you mentioned EQ I did in fact think of a standard 10 band type EQ and there is now way I would introduce that into my system. However a EQ / Crossover idea apeals to me. It would be much easier to "sell" the wife on the B&W's over the Wilson box look.
I would shudder at the thought of adding a regular E.Q., as well. :)

Since my first post I have learned about the new 802D. I buddy of mine in the industry says the B&W 802D sounds like a completely new speaker. He thinks I will like the sound a bunch better than the N802's. So I may get away without an EQ.
Here's the deal: No matter how it sounds, you can always improve response with a PROPER E.Q.. Realize, that merely with distance difference of a few feet, the high frequency response is altered. You can compensate precisely with a precision device such as the DCX. Also, you may find that subtle adjustments, using a shelf filter, for example, can be used to effectively adjust to your preference(s).

Here is an example of precision, it can alter so minutely that it is inaudible difference from reference, or as extreme as is needed:



You can specify Q of 0.1-10 for paramateric filters at any frequency between 20-20,000Hz and you can choose shelf filters of 6 or 12dB/octave rate, with a precision of 0.1dB. You can apply E.Q. seperately to each of the 6 outputs and additionally to the 3 inputs. The E.Q. and other parameters are rediculously easy to modify in real-time, using the software GUI. I recommend conncecting a computer to the DCX during setup to make things easy. It connects with a standard serial cable.

The unit also has delay functions for each channel, crossover functions(from 6db/octave to 48db/octave with a mulititude of transfer functions) for each channel. The device also has a dynamic E.Q. function, which can be set to compensate for woofer non-linearity. That is, as power level is increased to the woofer and it's mechanical behavior changes, you can, with appropriate data to work from, tune in parameters to retain a linear acoustic transfer function at varying power levels. Alternatively, you can use it as a safeguard mechanism to limit power levels in certain bands at high power levels.

You'll also need a way to reduce room induced resonances at the seating position. This device, in combination with a measuring system to obtain frequency response graphs, can be used to reduce and/or eliminate such problems.
Do you know if you can audition the EQ you are speaking of? Does it take a engineer to set up? If it is something I can set up with my RTA and I can give it a test run, it would be fun to check out.
You can check out local pro audio stores. They may carry the device. Otherwise, you can use a company such as http://www.zzounds.com whom allows a 45 day evaluation of a product with full refund privelages.
How much are they?
The Behringer DCX2496 was $400 USD, but recently(within the last 2 weeks) Behringer dropped the price to $250USD. I fully realize that this price seems to good to be true. I agree. However, this device is a superb piece of gear, and uses the same standard hi-quality components as studio recording equipment. I can find no faults with the device's performance. It adds no noise, distortion or other artifacts to the signal. It only modifies and/or splits the signal as it is instructed.
The new 802D has a new 1st order tweeter crossover that just smokes, so I don't know if I want to change that.
The DCX does not cause change the signal in any way except as you instruct it to.

Here is an example. Target response specified in GUI vs. actual measured responseas(ignore the little squiggles in the actual response at low frequency section of chart, this is a product of the measurement method i used, not the DCX) from the DCX's analog output:



The device does exactly as you instruct.

-Chris
 
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B

BuzzedHornet

Audiophyte
All I wanted to do is smoke a doobie and watch the walls move to the music. Will this help =)

Seriously, wow that is alot of info. Thanks! I do not have a great listening room at all. And I can not add any treatment to it. I get the HiFi the wife gets the rest of the house design. So this may in fact be a great way to get it sounding as good as possible until we buy a new home next year and I get my own listening room! It is so hard to stop listening to my gear and start listening to the music again. I sometimes wish I hadn't gotten hooked on this stuff years ago and I just went to my local HiFi store and said here is a check, hook me up! Then I could just kick back and listen to the music again! Then again, while this can be a expensive hobby, it is a blast. I love turning on a great cd and turning up the volume and closing my eyes for 30 mins or so a day. The kids know they can sit and listen with me, but that is my time. I don't know what I am rambling about here. Guess I am nervious about dropping another 12K on HiFi. Again, thanks for all the great info and the effort to do a write up that is that detailed for me.

Can I ask what you listen too?

Rob
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
BuzzedHornet said:
Again, thanks for all the great info and the effort to do a write up that is that detailed for me.
No problem. If you have any specific questions concerning the DCX2496 or integration, feel free to ask.

Can I ask what you listen too?
I use 3-way active speakers of my own design. I also listen to headphones often, primarily a Sony MDR-CD3000 but sometimes an AKG K501. The AKG is used for jazz, classical and other purely acoustic music. The Sony is utilized for pop, dance, electronic and rock genres, primarily.

-Chris
 
B

Ben Diss

Audiophyte
Chris- Not to hijack Buzz's thread, but I'm considering using the DCX2496 along with 3 A500's to go 3-way active with a DIY speaker (http://www.zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html).

What are your thoughts on the A500's and what would you suggest for a budget preamp?

Thanks.

-Ben
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
make the drive.

ive never heard the sophia but i did briefly own the b&w 802's,my impression of the 802's was that they are very thin & undynamic sounding,great mids & highs & great looks too but no balls in the bottom end:( ,they were also very placement specific,i tried them with krell & mcintosh amps.

for the kinda cash your getting ready to spend i personally think you should listen to as many quality speakers as possible before you decide.
 
V

VS540

Junior Audioholic
I have heard both, but not side by side. I personally would take the Sophia. The Sophia btw is being replaced by the 'Sophia Version 2' and from what I've read, people who have heard the version 2 say it is a big improvement over the previous Sophia.

The 802D (which is what I listened to, not the 802) did nothing for me. Harsh, lifeless, and sterile sounding is how I would describe the 802.

To each there own though, so try to listen to both if you can.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have no experience with the 802 but the 802D sound absolutely fantastic. The bass was great but the violin sounded so real I could listen to it all day. I usually cannot hear much difference between amps but with the 802D I did like it better with a Bryston 14B SST than with the 125W Musical Fidelity it was first hooked up to.

If you can spare the 12K, go for it. I may bypass the 803D and start saving up for the 802D myself.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
VS540 said:
:(

The 802D (which is what I listened to, not the 802) did nothing for me. Harsh, lifeless, and sterile sounding is how I would describe the 802.

To each there own though, so try to listen to both if you can.
A very linear monitor type speaker will probably sound as you just decribed on most commercial music, to most people, btw. :) But that is the beauty of the Nautilus unit. You can *easily* shape the sound of a device that is already linear to anything that you like, with superb results, using a proper equalization device such as the Behringer DCX2496. It is much more difficult to equalize a less linear speaker system, because unless you have measured for and analyzed the irregular behaviour of said device beforehand, you have no way of knowing what you need to first correct. Between the Sophia and Nautilus 802N or 802D, the Nautilus units are superior examples of engineering refinement by a considerable degree. So of course, I am biased by this factor.

-Chris
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Ben Diss said:
Chris- Not to hijack Buzz's thread, but I'm considering using the DCX2496 along with 3 A500's to go 3-way active with a DIY speaker (http://www.zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html).

What are your thoughts on the A500's and what would you suggest for a budget preamp?

Thanks.

-Ben
Go with DCX2496, not the DEQ2496. DCX is much more powerful/verstatile hardware. It also has a very useful computer GUI as I demonstrated above.

The A500 was reviewed and measured by Audio Critic recently. It is a superb performing device that can drive virtually any load, regardless of reactivity.

I can not suggest a preamplifier since you have not specified required features/functions.

-Chris
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
If you want to watch the walls move with the music, then I assume that you'll be throwing on Dark Side of the Moon at some point in time. An interesting note, Alan Parsons (the recording engineer for DSOTM) uses a full setup of B&W 802s in his studio to do mixing. So if you want to hear experience Dark Side the way Alan Parsons thinks it should sound, you're on the right track with the 802s.
 
H

htong76137

Audiophyte
Very interesting subject. I suggest to try them with Lamm 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, or 2.2 amplifier. The bass will rock any listening rooms.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
What you should do it sell your Transparent gear and buy the Watt Puppies.

SheepStar
Edit: Wow this thread is old..
 
T

Tone

Enthusiast
I was surprised to see apparent audiophiles recommending Eqs on systems that are supposed reproduce the sound exactly as recorded - however I agree with the non-purist - it's all about how it sounds to the listener no matter what electronics you use.
 

zing

Audiophyte
BuzzedHornet said:
I have always been in love with the Wilson Watt Puppy's but they have always been out of my price range. I also love the B&W 802's and they are in my range. Now Wilson has the Sophia, I haven't listened to these yet.

Anyone out there listen to the 802's side by side with the Sophia's? I will have to drive a few hours to listen to the Sophia's and want to know if it is worth my time. I know I like the 802's but the punch and slam of Wilson is hard to beat, atleast with the Watt Puppy's.

They will be connected to SL2500 Cal Audio Lab's stack. Since I am only using this Hometheater system as a 2 channel system, I have extra amp channels and I plan to bi wire the speakers. I use Transparent Reference cables and Transparent Power Conditioning. However I don't like the colorization of the power blocks and I am looking for new ones.

I listen to everything from Jazz, Grateful Dead to hard heavy rock. I listen above reference SPL (85 - 95db), when the wife and kids aren't home. But it is important that the system sounds great at low levels too.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

I listened to the Watt/Puppy and the 802D in a side by side. They were set up in different rooms and the room in which the Watt/Puppy were set up was a little livlier than the 802D room. Listening to the same music, I preferred the 802D. They had a deeper sound stage and sounded a little more natural to me.
 
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