B+W 803D vrs Paradigm Signature S8

[ParadigmDawg]

I actually prefer B&W and DA over Paradigms but not at my price point!

Not at all AcuDefTechGuy. We all know that you are the DT fanboi, and Greg is the 'digm fanboi. Not derogatory or demeaning in any way...I'm sure you both have your reasons. I too have mine: My Studio 100's and servo rock...big time!

 

[Johnd]

I actually prefer B&W and DA over Paradigms but not at my price point!

Hmmm. I thought this was B&W v 'digm?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

vs. Dynaudio...

Hmmm. I thought this was B&W v 'digm?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's it. There is a B&W/Rotel dealer about 30 miles from me. Next time I have a day off, I will have to come by to audition.

Okay, I've just talked to a Paradigm dealer who has the Paradigm S8s.

 

[dhoffack]

Def,

Those ratings are relative to other speakers in the same price range. So when they are rating the DT, they are rating them against other similar priced speakers. They are a good value, but they do not compare to the 802d, or the S8's, when it comes to music.

The DT have a forward mid's, piercing hi's, and pretty good bass. DT makes an okay sounding speaker for music, and the work well for HT, in my opinion.


Dan

 

[codexp3]

That's it. There is a B&W/Rotel dealer about 30 miles from me. Next time I have a day off, I will have to come by to audition.

Okay, I've just talked to a Paradigm dealer who has the Paradigm S8s.

Listen to the 803Ds vs. the S8s. Make sure you bring something that will put the tweeters to work. Rest your ears because the 803Ds are gonna fatigue them! J/K they're both really good speakers but you know I'm now a paradigm homer...at least until I can afford some puppies or salon2s. I'd have to say I like the dynaudio contour s5.4 slightly better than the 803D. They almost sounded like twins. I'll warn you ahead of time you're gonna come home with some S8s.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Nothing brings out the tweeters better than classical music, like the horn and trumpet concertos. I love the way The BP7000s perform with these classical music, but I will see how well the 803D and S8 do -- when I get a chance.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Those ratings are relative to other speakers in the same price range. So when they are rating the DT, they are rating them against other similar priced speakers. They are a good value, but they do not compare to the 802d, or the S8's, when it comes to music.

The DT have a forward mid's, piercing hi's, and pretty good bass. DT makes an okay sounding speaker for music, and the work well for HT, in my opinion.

The BP7000s are $5,000/pr, so they are in the same price class.

The Paradigms are $5,400/pair.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1004paradigm/index1.html

The B&W 803Ds are $8,000/pair.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1005bw/index1.html


HT Magazine- Darryl Wilkinson's opinion:

"The BP7000SCs sound as if you spent three or four times as much... these new creations are simply extraordinary..."

Andrew Robinson's opinion:

"The Definitive Technology BP7000SC SuperTowers, with a retail price just shy of five grand, are as close to a true
masterpiece of audio engineering as anything I’ve encountered in all my years in audio. They do equal justice to music and movies and everything else in between. No longer does the rationale of compromise need to enter the audio debate...Compare the Definitive Technology BP7000SC loudspeakers with the best from the world of ultra-high end and you might find overall the Definitive speaker system is the most well-rounded in a group that includes speakers costing as much as a new Prius...”

So I guess everyone has a different opinion. That's why they make a different speaker for everyone.

 

[blackfly]

Just remember, you have to live with your choices, and if you buy based on someone else and not YOU after a while you will not enjoy your decision.

Given the price I am willing to pay, I am making DAMN sure I am getting the best for my money, and it means searching ALL avenues of opinion, ideas and info. People who are in the market for speakers are NOT going to listen to only one brand, and with my choices being 2, it is easy to narrow it down further.

Another factor is that at this high level, the smallest detail will make the difference. Does a speaker resonate, vibrate or give off cabinet sounds. Is it hard to place. Does it look good. IF a speakers looks good it will provide postitive reinforcement to the listening experience and in turn sound better. There is a reason the LOOK of a speaker gets so much attention.

Myself, I think my mind is made up, but for a simple reason, not complicated ones.

I cannot get past the fact the 803D cost significantly more than the S8 (where I live) by $2000. That is a lot. I can buy a new CD player of high end lineage for that. And in terms of sonics, the 803D and the S8 are close enough to be equal, in the sense I cannot see (or hear) why the 803D should be more. Added to this, being a Canadian, the S8 has no import tax or long transport as the 803D (from England). You can be damn sure the 803D is more due to this fact alone as it cannot be from sonic reasons.

And I am a patriot too. Who wouldn't want to support their local countrymen? My Bryston is Canadian, a conscious choice, and I feel better knowing fellow Canucks are benefiting from my purchase.

I am not saying the 803D is BAD. Far from it. With my ears, budget and demands it is the BEST I can obtain. This is important. I can get Legacy speakers, but they are sight unseen and that is not wise. Would you buy a car without trying it on for size? I will buy only what I can see, try and listen too. Very important.

But it is not like I am FORCING anyone to make up their mind. Frankly, I find DT (which I can get) boring, and they in fact use Paradigms' research facilities to make their speakers. Bet most did not know that. Most other brands are too expensive, so you don't bother trying something you cannot afford. I will not spend less either. I just want to maximize what I want to spend.

And related to towers, it is actually VERY hard to properly integrate a sub into a satellite system. The consensus is that it is easy to do, but compare a FULL range monitor to a sub/sat system and you will find the latter to not be as robust, integrated and seamless. Not saying it cannot be done but for the average listener, it is not a matter or simply matching up crossover points and setting levels. You have no way of knowing what the level should be, or not, and whether room interactions are actually making your crossover point too low, high etc....... Been there, done that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...and they (Def Tech) in fact use Paradigms' research facilities to make their speakers. Bet most did not know that...

Def Tech used to do their research @ the NRC Lab in Canada. That's ancient history.

Def Tech has their own multi-million dollar Def Tech Advanced Research Facility, which is actually bigger and has even more advanced anechoic chambers than the Canadian NRC Lab.

 

[blackfly]

Pity the added size and research ability did not make any difference to the speaker as I ruled out the Def Techs almost immediately. Having all the resources in the world means nothing if you cannot interperate the results and put it into practice.

IMO, I think DefTech is living off the glory of the original release of the BP2000, which was the first to have integrated subs (15" with a robust amp, in each tower). Julian Hirsch (RIP) claimed to say they were one of the few speakers he heard that he would choose for himself (I have old issues of Stereo Review that prominently display such ads). But I never liked the look nor sound of them. A lot of bang but little finesse. Just me.

Lets be honest. You obviously like DefTech and there is nothing wrong with that. Obviously they sound good to your ears and that is fine. Variety is expected. But do not assume they are the best period. Every company has its own signature and forte, and DefTech is there for theatre, but for strict stereo listening it does not do it for me.

 

[greggp2]

So what happened here? What was the final verdict on the S8's vs the 803D's? How did we get side tracked into Def Tech?

I've owned Def Tech's, and have heard many of their speakers. They make good speakers with good bass extension, but IMO they don't have the clarity of the B&W's.

I'm curious however, how the Paradigms compared to the B&Ws

 

[PENG]

You won't get a verdict on a subjective thing like this. That being said, people may naturally compare the S8 to the 803S or 803D and end up buying the S8 because they seem to give more for less. Most people who have a set budget at that price point would not consider the 802D because of the significant premium. The 802 may also be a little too big and heavy for the average home owners. I have listened to the 802, 3, and S8 and I would without a doubt take the 803 over the S8 but I am sure many will do the opposite. There is no verdict. And, some will take the DefTech.

 

[codexp3]

I can tell you that the gentleman that started this thread also went with the Paradigm S8s. I felt the 803Ds were excellent, but I love the tweeter on the S8s. If you find a single fault with a speakers costing 7k+ you need to look elsewhere.

 

[greggp2]

Did you guys ever experience listening fatigue listening to the older Nautilus line, the non D series? I own 802's currently and the last couple of weeks, my ears literally start hurting after about 30 minutes of listening. I'm not sure if it is due to a head cold I've had, or if the new Yamaha 3900 I have powering them and am using as a Pre/Pro is causing them to be too bright..

 

[Davemcc]

Did you guys ever experience listening fatigue listening to the older Nautilus line, the non D series? I own 802's currently and the last couple of weeks, my ears literally start hurting after about 30 minutes of listening. I'm not sure if it is due to a head cold I've had, or if the new Yamaha 3900 I have powering them and am using as a Pre/Pro is causing them to be too bright..

If you give me your 802's, your problem will be solved. But seriously, when I listened to the 803S, I had no idea there was so much controversy over tweeters. I thought they were perfect and could have sat and listened to them all day long.

 

[codexp3]

I noticed this the the B&W 803S. Thirity minutes was all I could take. I was in well treated auditioning room the speakers just wore one me.

 

[greggp2]

I'm wondering if I can put the 802D tweeters into my speakers???

 

[greggp2]

Answer is yes, but it is costly and the cross over needs to be changed as well. From what my local dealer told me, I'm better off selling my speakers and looking for a pre-owned pair of 802d's. Since times are tough right now, I think I'll stick with what I've got!!!

 

[Nemo128]

High Five 2 Acudeftechguy! =D