B&W 684 or Aperion Intimus 5T or Axoim M60

G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
I'm stuck and I hope someone can give me some help. :confused:

I am looking to purchase some new floorspeakers. I listen to mostly music in a medium room with high ceilings. I am driving them with a Denon 1910 that is 90 watts per 7 channels. Since it is a bit underpowered, sensitivity is a concern. Oh, nd I already have a subwoofer in place.

I was considering the EMP E5Ti but I just can't bring myself to do it without a solid review. Yes, they look great, and yes they are cheap, but my decision has to based largely on how they sound. Since no-one can offer any solid reviews, I have to wait or pass on them.

I went to a B&W dealer today to listen to how the B&W sound. I spent quite a while with the 684 and threw a full spectrum of music at them. I think they sounded fabulous, but I wasn't really awe-struck. Plus they are the priciest at $1,100 plus local sales tax. I realize that B&W have high quality components but I wonder if it makes that much difference in sound quality in the lower level of speakers.

I have also been looking toward the Axiom M60 or the Aperion 5T. Once again, I can't listen to these but the reviews are raving for both of them, especially the Aperion 5T. Can anyone recommend one over the other?
Aperion has the fabulous in home preview where they will pay for return shipping if I am unhappy with them. That is hard to beat.

I also came across the PSB Image T55 Towers today , but I haven't dug too deep. I think there is a dealer about 50 miles from here. So I may go give them a listen.

All of this is to say that I am a bit overwhelmed with decisions and unsure of what to do. It is especially difficult to purchase speakers on-line without listening first. But the quality and value of on-line dealers is just too great to ignore.

I am very grateful for any input. Thanks
 
timoteo

timoteo

Audioholic General
i listened to the B&W 684s also. Even though i thought that they sounded very nice overall i was not ah-struck either. I ended up going with the B&W 683s however. They are completely amazing!! The few hundred dollar diff was WELL worth it. For both movies & music they are hard to beat for their price. The star of these speakers is the FST Midrange. Leaps & bounds above the 684. Plus the dual 6.5" bass drivers get down to 38hz...pretty impressive if you want some clean low end.

I know you didnt mention the 683s & maybe they are a touch out of the price range you want to spend. However if you are willing to test them out & possibly front the extra doe, you wont be let down.

Yes B&W makes high quality speakers & yes, starting with the 683s you do get a trickle down effect from their 800 series with the FST.

Hope you find what you are looking for in the long run!!
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Its hard to say. Both Axiom and Aperion get very good reviews. I know that in A/B comparisons of the T6 against the Axiom M80 they sound very similar. The PSBs have a good reputation as well. I listened to the T55 tower, but it was unfortunately in a very noisy environment so I really couldn't form an opinion on it.

You can see from my sig what I like. ;)

FWIW, the M60 is very similar in sound to the B&W703.
 
G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
Well, the Axioms appear to be a bit more efficient. Otherwise, I think they are quite similar.

I think I am drawn to the appearance of the Aperions a bit more. But obviously, appearance is a small slice of the pie.
 
the grunt

the grunt

Audioholic
Don’t select your speakers based on efficiency unless playing loud is the most important thing to you and then you should be looking at something like Klipsch that’s really efficient. You are very likely going to need to upgrade your receiver long before you upgrade your speakers assuming you buy speakers you really like so you can always get more power later.

Pick the speakers you most like the sound of. Preferably how they sound in your own room with your own equipment. This makes Aperion which includes shipping both ways in the price (should you return them) a no brainer to try. You get to demo them in your room for 30 days and it will have cost you nothing but some time should you not like them.

Axiom estimates $30/speaker to return towers. Also your local dealer may allow in home demos with or w/o a restocking fee so you might be able to arrange a direct comparison or to

Some speaker company forum’s have demo sections where you can try to hook up with someone in your area to have a listen. Axiom’s is in the “Hearing Things” subforum at the Axiom forum. Not sure if Aperion has one but sense you can essentially have them at home for free to demo I wouldn’t waste my time demoing a someone else’s place, just order a pair and have a listen.

Finally, having only mentioned hearing the B&W 684s it doesn’t give people any real basis for comparison to suggest which speakers you are going to like best. If you can go out and listen to as many speakers as you can. Even above your price range. Then post back what you did and didn’t like about them and other can give you more informed suggestions as to what speakers will sound most similar to what you like. But without a common frame of reference to work with you might as well toss a coin as take anyone’s advise in a forum or even professional review.

For full disclosure I own Axiom M80s, however, I would never recommend them or any other speaker to you based on what I know of your preferences right now.

Cheers,
Dean
 
chris357

chris357

Senior Audioholic
another advantage of the inhome listen is that you connect them to your gear. they may have them connected to a bad *** amp or AVR that will make them sound different when you get them home.

depending on the type of store
 
G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
Thanks!

You're right. I'll give Aperion a try in my home for 30 days. It only makes sense. And I'll keep looking around for more speakers to hear.

Thanks again.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
For some people, spending money on speakers they may not keep does not make sense, but, in home demo is the way to go. A few things to remember when demoing at home,


  • Sufficient speaker and amp power is a must, but you dont need huge speakers powered by a 500W amp in a small room
  • Use a good player and reference quality media (read, not iPod)
  • More expensive does not necessarily correspond with better sound (read, psycho-acoustical impressions)
  • Dont forget room response induced peaks and nulls. At the very least, run room EQ from the receiver and level match. If possible, have room treatments installed to minimize the effect of the room on your decision
  • They will be your speakers feeding sound to your ears. Trust your judgement and don't second guess it because of what someone or the other says on the forums

  • Pick a budget and stick with the best you can get within it. In this hobby, there is always bigger and better and then some. No point overextending yourself on speakers and not have money to pay the electricity bill :)

Happy hunting :)

As with Fredk, my sig shows where my money went :D.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
For some people, spending money on speakers they may not keep does not make sense, but, in home demo is the way to go.
Agreed. I bet most of us spent more than the cost of return shipping on a pair of speakers driving around to various stores.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
I'd go with the Aperion's myself. I like a slight edge to sound and they have a slight edge, but not so much as the M60's and a bit more than the B&W. With shipping both ways, definitely give them a try.
 
the grunt

the grunt

Audioholic
First off if you are really interested in specifics about the Aperion speakers I would post your questions over in there own forum (not sure how active it is) as you will likely get more informed answers about how their speakers perform and what combinations of speakers work best for various purposes. Never gone there myself but my gut tells me you will get good straight shooting advice as I don’t ever remember seeing and Aperion owner trashing other brands out in the more public forums like this one.

If you plan on listening mostly to 2 channel music w/o a subwoofer I would prioritize your L/R mains. My preference would be the 6Ts to get the lower extension the increased efficiency is a bonus but not IMO a reason to buy them. If you plan on using your sub for 2 channel music or most of your listening will be multi-channel 5.1 I think the 4T and 5T will do fine and I don’t see any significant difference between them based on their specs, however someone with real listening experience may say otherwise. When buying your mains keep in mind you will likely want to get the matching center when you are ready to upgrade that.

Also if you always plan to use a sub for music don’t discount the idea of getting some good bookshelf speakers. Your room sounds almost like mine 13 x 21 x 8-12 vaulted open on one side to the kitchen/dining room. I have both Axiom M80 towers and M22 bookshelf speakers and when both are paired with a sub I can barely tell the difference with the mid bass sounding a little bit more full on the M80 sub combo.

Seating distance will have more impact on how loud your speakers sound to you than the room volume. The volume will have more impact on how the bass sounds/feels. This calculator will give you an idea of how much power you need to get a desired sound level.

http://www.crownaudio.com/apps_htm/designtools/elect-pwr-req.htm

For example if you plug in 2 meters distance, 91dB 6T efficiency, 85dB SPL (OSHA level where permanent hear damage starts occurring) and 18 dB headroom (enough for all but the most demanding classical music) you only need 63w/channel. Note that most AVRs don’t actually deliver their full rated power to all channels continuously nor to they usually need to, for example my Denon rated at 120w/ch only gives me about 103w/ch when running more than 2 speakers.

My only concern about the 4B over the 5B surrounds is that they only extend down to 120Hz. If your AVR doesn’t allow individual setting for each set of speakers then that could cause you to either have to set your crossover pretty high (80Hz is usually as high as you want) or loose out on the some of the 80-120Hz information in your surround channels. Even if you can set the surround crossovers separately anything above 80Hz could become localizable to the subwoofer.

Also for surrounds you might also consider 4BP or 5BP (similar but not as big of crossover issues). Direct radiating vs. multi-polar surrounds and rears is often a heated debate. My preference is multi-polar as most information in the 5/6 7.1 surround channels either in movies or music is ambient which I fell is better reproduced by multi-polar speakers unless your in a really big room with side walls 5 or more feet from the nearest listener.

If your not sure how well your center channel will match your mains I would hold off on buying the surrounds. Get the mains and set up your system and see how it sounds with your current center. Meanwhile, if the boss allows, move your old mains to surround positions as surrounds matching the rest of your system is least important. This will give you a full 5.1 system to play with. If having an unmatched center is distracting then order a matching Aperion center and continue using your old mains as surrounds until you can afford to switch to smaller ones.

Another option if the center doesn’t match well is to run a phantom center. Just tell your AVR you don’t have a center speaker in the setup menu and it will route that information to the L/R mains. You loose the advantages of being able to boost the center volume for louder dialogue and having the center channel sounds anchored to the screen but it may be more tolerable than using a mismatched center.

Sorry for such a long post but you have a lot of possible options available, so there’s lots of info to cover. You really should go out and demo more speakers. Since music is such an important part of your planned listening getting the right sounding L/R (possibly center for multi-channel) speakers is very important.

Cheers,
Dean


P.S. Just saw Roger That’s comment on trade up. Very good call as is his comment on 2.0 vs 5.0.
 
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G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
I know you didnt mention the 683s & maybe they are a touch out of the price range you want to spend. However if you are willing to test them out & possibly front the extra doe, you wont be let down.
Thanks, I'm sure the 683's sound great. I've actually heard that from someone else too. Unfortunately, they are just out of my price range. Hmmm.... I guess I could consider waiting and saving a bit more money to spend on them.


Thans for the input "the grunt," "rnatalli," "fredk, and "agarwalro." You have given me a lot of good advice and a lot to consider. At the moment, I have essentially eliminated the B&W from my decision and it is between the Aperion 5T and the Axiom M60. I am likely to order both and then keep the pair that suits me best.

As "fredk" said, I think return shipping is the price to pay for getting the perfect set of speakers. I guess I can consider it the trade-off for not paying sales tax.

Thanks again. I am very grateful.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Glad we could help. Come back and post your thoughts on the two sets of speakers. We LOVE that sort of stuff. :D
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
Thans for the input "the grunt," "rnatalli," "fredk, and "agarwalro." You have given me a lot of good advice and a lot to consider. At the moment, I have essentially eliminated the B&W from my decision and it is between the Aperion 5T and the Axiom M60. I am likely to order both and then keep the pair that suits me best.
You are very welcome :).

Maybe you can do a review in the 'Write your own review' section.

Last but not the least, once your setup is done, post pics in the 'Member Systems Gallery' section.
 
G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
Yes, I just might do that. It is probably still a few weeks out but I'll keep it in mind.
Thanks again.
 
J

JRandall

Audiophyte
I think I have narrowed me choices down to B&W, NHT, or Paradigm. Hopefully, I can get out this weekend to audition.

I heard some Dynaudio's that were impressive, but pricey! :eek:
 
G

gpzbc

Audioholic Intern
I think I have narrowed me choices down to B&W, NHT, or Paradigm. Hopefully, I can get out this weekend to audition.

I heard some Dynaudio's that were impressive, but pricey! :eek:
Good Luck!
Keep us posted on what you find.
 

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