B&W 604 or 602, both with sub

[vf-00]

I currently have 602s3's which I like very much and use for music. I'd like to expand to a 5.1 setup but am having trouble deciding on the mains. Can't decide between the 604 and 602's because of these questions:

Since I will be using a sub, does that render the bass drivers on the 604 redundant?

And cuz the 604 and 602 use the same drivers with the exception of the additional bass drivers on the 604, would it be better to just get the 602's and use the extra $800 for some other part of the HT system?

Does the 604 sound any better than the 602 given both will be used with a sub?

BTW, I use the speakers for about 70% music and the rest movies. Of course I would like the best sound possible for both. And ideally I'd be able to do a listening test myself cuz only I can tell what I like, but in-store tests are not possible. So I welcome any and all comments and opinions out there.

 

[warpdrive]

I believe you should stick with the 602's

Several reasons:
- While all the 600 series should sound the same in overall timbre, having 602's all around will still be the better match. This will be especially important if you listen to multichannel DVD-Audio/SACD where five identical speakers provides the best seamless soundstage.
- You are going to set the receiver's crossover frequency to blend in best with your least bassy speaker. It's easier to get a good blend the sub with the speakers if all of them have similar bass response in my experience.
And you are right, the extra drivers of the 604 are not going to be utilized in 5.1 mode (unless you have the ability to tune the crossover freq for each pair of speakers in your receiver)
- That money you save can go toward an even better subwoofer, or maybe a sixth rear center speaker for 6.1 surround. If you think thinking of skimping on the sub to get the 604, don't. A mediocre sub is not worth it, get something that plays clean to under 25Hz.

Some people like to run their receiver in "Direct Mode" bypassing the receiver's processing circuitry for music listening. If you do this, then the sub will be bypassed in that mode. And then the 604's would be a better choice.

 

[nibhaz]

I believe you should stick with the 602's

Several reasons:
- While all the 600 series should sound the same in overall timbre, having 602's all around will still be the better match. This will be especially important if you listen to multichannel DVD-Audio/SACD where five identical speakers provides the best seamless soundstage.
- You are going to set the receiver's crossover frequency to blend in best with your least bassy speaker. It's easier to get a good blend the sub with the speakers if all of them have similar bass response in my experience.
And you are right, the extra drivers of the 604 are not going to be utilized in 5.1 mode.
- That money you save can go toward an even better subwoofer

Some people like to run their receiver in "Direct Mode" bypassing the receiver's processing circuitry for music listening. If you do this, then the sub will be bypassed in that mode. And then the 604's would be a better choice.

I believe that warpdrive’s suggestion would probably give you the best return on investment, however there is one flaw in his reasoning that requires further thought. In a 5.1 system the lower driver on the 604's are used. The crossover points for the 604's are at 450 and 4k. So if you were to set the crossover point in your receiver at 80hz, the bass drivers would handle 80-450, the mid would handle 450-4k, and then the tweeter handles the rest. If you were to use the 602's the single driver would have to handle 80-4k. This places more of a load on the single driver which might result in poorer sound quality. The mid in the 604's not only has to work less, but it is also isolated in the cabinet, whether or not you can hear a difference would require you to spend some time auditioning them side by side.

But like warpdrive said saving money by staying with 602’s would leave you with some serious dough to get a really nice sub which would probably give the most bang for the buck, no pun intended.

I have 604’s because I like to listen in Pure/Direct….again warpdrive is spot on…scary!

 

[warpdrive]

That makes sense, but the bass driver of the 602's will probably not be stressed very much anyway if you have a good sub that do the difficult stuff below 60Hz. My own bookshelf speakers are strained in my room if I run them large, but with the sub, they aren't working very hard at all. My system sounds a lot cleaner even at very loud volumes.

One other thing I might add. B&W recommends the larger 600 series center channel to be matched only with the larger speakers. If anything, that might be a reason to choose the 604's. For home theater, a good center channel is very important. I would make sure I bought a 600 model center channel, and check if the 602's still sound matched to them. If not, go for the 604.

 

[zumbo]

Well, I see it part one way, and part another. I would go with the 604's for the reason mentioned by nibhaz. I use a crossover point of 60hz for the best blend with my sub, and I believe you need the 604's to achieve a better blend for a more satisfying sound.

But, why not the 603's?

 

[warpdrive]

Whether or not the 604's are really a better blend is debatable. That is something you should try yourself to be sure.

I opted for bookshelves myself rather than floorstanders after hearing both with a sub, and there was no real appreciable difference once the sub was dialed in correctly. It took some trial and error, but I achieved a very good blend. I still think going four identical speakers all around is a valuable thing to do. It's easier to get one sub to blend with four speakers than to blend with two floorstanders and two bookshelf speakers.

But if you buy the 604's. be sure to get the larger center channel....but that again adds to your extra cost.

 

[vf-00]

Hmmm, all good food for thought. . .

At this point, the higher cost of the 604's is not an issue. I intend to keep these speakers for a LONG time so the investment now is worth it in the long run. (While I'd love to do the 700 or 800 series, I'd have a hard time justifying buying speakers at that price point. And no matter what fronts I end up getting, I do intend on getting a quality sub, prob a Hsu or SVS.) With that said, it appears things are leaning in favor of the 604's.

-I do listen to music in pure direct mode, at least for now. With a sub that might change from what I read about how the hsu and svs adds so much more to music.

-I was planning on getting the 600 rather than the 60 for the center channel. The reviews I read say it performs better than its smaller sibling.

I was not considering the 603's because I want the larger drivers and from people who have heard both, almost everyone says the 604 sound better. But I believe they were doing a direct speaker to speaker comparison without the use of a sub. . .

Shouldn't the sub blend equally well with the 604's and 602's since they do use the same driver? How important is it that the sub blends seamlessly with the rears since they are mostly used for surround effects?

I just don't want to wonder later if I could've done one better by getting the 604's instead of the 602's. Both speakers have gotten great reviews, hence why I am having such a hard time deciding.

 

[warpdrive]

If there is any doubt, then get the 604's. Either should work well, it's just a matter of a very subtle differences. If you intend to keep this for a very long time, it's always better to overbuy. Both will be a good blend, the 604's will likely work less for any given load and thus can handle more of what you throw at it. And also, it's a better match for the 600 center channel.

I think if you listen toi music, running the 604's without the sub (receiver in 2 channel direct mode) is going to give you the most satisfying experience.

However, if you were thinking of skimping somewhere else in your system (esp the sub) to get the 604's, I'd get the 602's and spend the money on the sub instead

 

[vf-00]

Has anyone heard both the 603 and 604? I re-examined zumbo's suggestion and reread some reviews. In the ones I read, people picked the 604 over the 603 mostly because of the extra bass. This is largely a non-issue for me because I'm planning on getting a sub anyway. So here's the $400 question, how did the 603's and 604's sound to you compared against each other. Do they sound similiar except for the bass?

 

[annunaki]

In my opinion, yes. If a sub will be used 100% of the time. I would say 603's if the budget is tighter. Save the extra money and get the LCR600 center.

 

[nibhaz]

just my opinion...

I originally had the 603's for just under a month, but realized that I wanted a little more in the lower end. I like to feel my music when listening at volume...if you know what I mean. However I do most of my listening in stereo without a sub and that is why I have the 604's. If you don't plan on extended listening without a sub, then I would probably go with the 603's. IMO there is not $400 difference between these speakers when they are used in conjunction with a sub... The best way to avoid buyer's remorse is to listen and decide for yourself. But I must say...I love my 604's!

 

[vf-00]

What's driving those 604's? I heard they'll really enjoy all the power you can give them.

 

[annunaki]

nibhaz,

How do you feel the LCR60 integrates with your 604's. Is it a seamless integration. Did you demo the LCR600 as well?

 

[nibhaz]

What's driving those 604's? I heard they'll really enjoy all the power you can give them.

vf-00 the 604’s are being driven by the Onkyo receiver. Like I said most of my listening is done with just 2 channels driven, and the Onkyo is able to drive them to levels that would get me kicked out of my apartment if I listened at that level all the time. The Onkyo’s volume will go to +18 dB. I did a very unscientific test with the volume set at 0db, the max I’ve ever turned it up with music playing. My test consisted of having my digital SPL meter setup in a tripod in my listening position and set to take a 199 sec sample of the in room SPL that it then averages. My listening area has a volume of approximately 2,688 cu ft with a hallway and a kitchen leading off of it. I used Eurythmics’ Sweet dreams as my source material. After 199sec I had an avg. of 93dB at the listening position, a max of 108db, and the min being below 90dB. The Onkyo did this without breaking a sweat and the 604’s sound like they could take more. The point I’m trying to make is that the 604’s will take what ever you throw at them, but they don’t require insane levels of power to play loud and sound great.


With that said, I do plan on buying a 200wpc three channel amp sometime in the future...upgradeitus if you know what I mean

 

[nibhaz]

nibhaz,

How do you feel the LCR60 integrates with your 604's. Is it a seamless integration. Did you demo the LCR600 as well?

Annunaki for the most part I feel that the LCR60 integrates well with the 604’s. During real world conditions I’ve never noticed a change in timber as sound effects or dialogue have panned across my front three channels. However when performing a more critical timber matching test I have detected a slight change in timber. With the LCR60 placed directly on top the 604, and both placed directly in front of the listening position, and level matched the LCR60 sounds a little brighter when replaying a 150 Hz high pass pink noise test tone, but when I use a wide band pink noise test tone I cannot detect even the slightest of shifts in timber. I suspect the shift in timber might have to do with LCR60's smaller mid range driver, or perhaps the fact that the rear port is located dead center behind the tweeter. I’m not sure if the LCR600 has the port in the same location, but I do know that the mid and bass drivers are an inch larger. The 360 view of the LCR600 on the B&W website shows the port being off center….but then again it shows it being off center for the LCR60 too.

I must admit that I did not audition the LCR600. None of this local chain of stores had the LCR600 in stock to listen to. I was and still am mainly concerned with stereo playback so after a couple of listens with the LCR60 being used as center with 603’s (what I originally purchased) I felt timber matching to be more than acceptable since I might watch two movies a month at best. I suppose acceptable is a bit of an understatement since at the time and currently I’m unable to hear any change in timber during HT play back. I'm also an immediate gratification person so I didn’t want to wait for them to order a LCR600 just for me especially when the LCR60 seemed to handle the job well enough for me. However this shop offers 1 year upgrades so for 150 dollars I can pick up the LCR600 which I plan to do, more or less to satisfy my upgradeitus, but also to get the lower frequency response so in the future when I get more robust rears and a better sub I have the option to use a crossover below 80hz if I find that works better for me. More never hurts….

 

[Wyngdh]

B&W 6 series speakers - add a subwoofer?

Hallelujah! There is someone out there who also shares my dilemma. I have just added the Denon 3805 AVR and 2910 Universal Player to my set up. I kept my original my B&W 610i speakers and added the 602 S3 and LCR60 to make up a 5 speaker configuration. Since the 3805 allows me to play 5 channel stereo I've been playing all my music through these channels vs the Pure Direct Mode (yes, I just love being surrounded by music). (I used to thing my original Talk Electronics Hurricane/Storm amp/pre-amp was good, but the 3805 had a definite WOW factor. I am currently playing my CDs off my old Marantz CD63MkII (optical) because my 2910 is in for repairs. The technology may be 7+ years old, but it's stil damn good.

Now I'm considering adding the ASW60 sub woofer. Before I make this leap, is there anyone out there who can tell me how it's going to change my sound?

 

[shokhead]

Adding a sub will be a shock how much better everything will sound. Just dont go cheap on the sub. I added a SVS for 600 bucks and its great.

 

[nibhaz]

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9440