AVRant #10: Tom is a Badass and Dina is Evil

[davidtwotrees]

What price professionalism?

I think it is a perfect illustration of our economy. Competition is so fierce we can not afford to pay for professional sales people. A professional sales person, to me, is someone that knows their product lines inside and out, and can share that with me. But, when I use the term professional, I would expect that person to be paid a living wage, ie be able to make a living as a sales person. To anyone reading this, could you make your current bills on the money paid to the BB and CC employees in question? I couldn't. Is this an excuse for ignorance? No, but it is an explanation for apathy and not caring about the product or the customers.....
How about this. For $30 we [BB, CC] will supply you with a pro audio consultant for a half hour. If you make a purchase over $500, we will deduct that from your purchase price. ????
I bet most people would scoff at this idea. Most of us want pro service, but when faced with the cost, we balk. What price professionalism?

 

[krabapple]

You don't get the point. SOMEBODY did it so it must not be that bad .

No, that's not the point.

The point was that the somebody who *isn't* a audio newbie, or a flooby-inhaling audiophool, did it on a rational basis, and apparently made the things work for him -- and, if the $$ound article is to be believed, for a skeptical listener (IIRC, the author of the profile was Howard Ferstler, who like virtually all audio journalists was not notably pro-Bose). His 901 setup was FAR from typical. How about you guys try tracking down the Sensible Sound article -- or Gary's posts to audio newsgroups, -- instead of jerking your knees at the mere mention of, er, 'Blows' .


(Btw, I owned 901s a few decades ago, and I eventually sold them for the usual reasons. I don't regret ditching them, but I don't discount the possibility if someone *designed a home theater around an array of them*, as Eickmeier did, one could get spectacular results. And no, the 901s aren't at all like *any* of the speakers that Bose commonly sells for HT, least of all those crappy little cubes)

 

[krabapple]

Oh, well, if Gary did it then it must be OK I've never heard the 901's

Oh.

but I've heard just about every other HT speaker they've made and they're all garbage.

Quite possibly. But 901 design is rather different from their HT line.

I've always been leery of speakers, in general, that require an EQ to fix their inherent problems so you'll have to forgive my hesitation in taking yours, Gary's, or anyone else's word on their quality.

Fine, if hadn't gone well beyond 'hesitation'. You might want to check that maximum-density ego now and then. And lose the childish/smug nerd 'Blows' stuff in the podcasts...Bose's lawyers surely aren't fooled, if that was the intent.

 

[Tom Andry]

You're fun. Keep posting.

 

[majorloser]

And lose the childish/smug nerd 'Blows' stuff in the podcasts...Bose's lawyers surely aren't fooled, if that was the intent.

Blows and Bose lawyers in the same sentence.....

Do you know something about "special" Bose attorney client services that we don't?

 

[avaserfi]

You're fun. Keep posting.

It is a good hoot to see him defend some guy in the business. I bet he spent more on his cables to push those Blose than I did on all of my speakers. I guess he did it...so I should because everyone knows that cables are what make the system sound good.

 

[Audioholics]

I don't think anyone can argue that some guy didn't hook up a bunch of 901s into an array and really like it. I'm just left thinking: "So what?"

It's assumed that when anyone on AVRant or Audioholics discusses Bose or Blose or Brose or Boose they are referring to their tiny cubed speakers.

 

[krabapple]

It is a good hoot to see him defend some guy in the business.

LOL. "Some guy in the business"? WTF? I couldn't tell you what Eickmeier does for a living, myself -- if that info is even out there, I'd have to, you know, actually look it up.

Are *any* of you guys reading for content, or do the normal mental processes disconnect when you read the word 'Bose'?

Really, by aggressively missing my point -- that maybe, just maybe, contrary to audiophile assumption, as well as to at least one podcast, it's possible to get good sound out of a Bose setup, if one is willing to go to unusual lengths -- you're now making me *enjoy* defending a Bose product, whereas on the other 363 days of the year, if I were to mention Bose 901s at all, it'd be to dismiss them from my own experience as being vastly overpriced, excessively fussy speakers with a sound that's, er, 'all their own'.

I bet he spent more on his cables to push those Blose than I did on all of my speakers. I guess he did it...so I should because everyone knows that cables are what make the system sound good.

er...OK, I'll add betting to reading for content, on the list of things you're maybe not so great at.

 

[krabapple]

I don't think anyone can argue that some guy didn't hook up a bunch of 901s into an array and really like it. I'm just left thinking: "So what?"

OK, there's the part where I called the guy 'not a newbie and not an audiophile kook' or words to that effect (but who the heck am I, anyway? Just someone who reads too many audio magazines and forums), and then there's the part where I reported how the guy had been written up in Sensible Sound, a journal which has a philosophy not unlike Audioholics'. Ahh, hell, *so what*. Not built here!

It's assumed that when anyone on AVRant or Audioholics discusses Bose or Blose or Brose or Boose they are referring to their tiny cubed speakers.

Yes, but for that reason, isn't it nice to learn sometimes that maybe *assumptions* about audio, including about Bose (or "Blose or Brose or Boose"! Have mercy with that rapier, damn you!) aren't the whole story?

 

[krabapple]

Blows and Bose lawyers in the same sentence.....

Do you know something about "special" Bose attorney client services that we don't?

er...well, to tell the truth, you've imagined a scenario that hadn't occurred to me ...not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[fmw]

I'm not sure when the Bose 901 system was developed. If I remember it was in the late 50's or early 60's but my aged mind can't nail it down. The concept was based on an array of small speakers developed in the 1950's that had the ability to produce fairly wide range audio without either large speaker cones or a crossover network. That array used 16 4" speakers and was called the "sweet 16." The 901 used a smaller number of small speakers and added an EQ circuit to compensate for having the drivers all the same size with no crossover. I think it also had a rear firing speaker designed to boost bass a little by using the corners of a room. All of this was housed in a small bookshelf cabinet.

In those days it was not only innovative and high tech but it also sounded better than many of the speaker systems of its time and all of the bookshelf speakers of its time. The 901 was so successful, it put Bose on the map and made the Bose brand known to people outside the small circle of audiophiles.

Bose has done an excellent job of marketing the brand. They have become more successful than almost any other American audio products company thanks to making hay with the brand that the 901 launched way back then.

No, Bose has not spent its corporate life developing great sounding speakers. Yes, the 901 is a pretty old design and represents the last really competent speaker Bose ever marketed. But engineering great speakers hasn't been their focus. Their focus has been to build brand acceptance among non audiophiles and that has been successful without a doubt.

It is interesting to me that people serious about recorded sound spend so much time panning Bose. If it were any other brand, people would just ignore it. Perhaps you see my point.

 

[Sheep]

How much is it to call that number? And What's the long distance version..

SheepStar

 

[Tom Andry]

If you're asking if there is a surcharge (like calling one of those psychic hotlines) - there isn't. It is just a normal telephone number. The only charge would be whatever your carrier levies against you. I'm not sure what you mean by "long distance" version. There is only one number. That's it. If you live in the 978 area code, it is local for you.

 

[krabapple]

Food for thought for Tom Andry:

This loudspeaker comparison report from a blind test made the rounds on the forums in 2010. The test was conducted by David Clark and participants included Tom Nousaine, David Carlstrom and 11 others, presumably members of the 'Southeastern Michigan Woofer and Tweeter Marching Society', an audio hobbyist club analogous to the Boston Audio Society. It was exploring Siegfried Linkwitz' 2009 AES claim that his Orions, properly set up, achieve the goal of high fidelity with just two channels -- i.e., reproducing a plausible 'audio scene', the original venue's acoustics, spatial images, etc. Speakers in the comparison were judged (blind) on how well they created a plausible audio Scene , rated along several scales.

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/SLReport10.05.pdf


1) Behringer monitors plus a sub, EQ'd to match Orions in their optimum position
2) Linkwitz Orions (no sub) in several positions, no EQ
3) 'Eickmeiers' + sub (EQd to match Orions in optimal position)
4) the second set of Behringers mounted in room corners, + sub. (EQ'd as above)

i.e.,
–All other configurations equalized to Orions in Optimum position
–Subs added for Behringers and Eickmeiers. Levels matched

The 'Eickmeiers' are Gary Eickmeier's 'improved' direct/reflecting Bose 901 designs (they're affectionately referred to as 'Eickmeier’s cheesy boxes of multiple cheap in-walls')

The results are interesting, to say the least.

 

[highfigh]

That guy had been working there for over 6 years. How much experience do you think he needs before he should be knowledgeable enough to hang out on these boards?

Knowledge is one thing, pressure from management to sell the push lines is another and BB is all about selling what makes the most profit whether it's needed, or not. I have a customer who just bought a TV (LG LCD, from a WI-based chain) and in the same deal, he signed up for DirecTV. The sales guy gave him a box and wrote on the side, "ONLY USE THIS WHEN THE EQUIPMENT IS INSTALLED!". The box had a Munster power strip, a screen cleaning kit, an HDMI cable and a calibration disc. There was no line on the receipt for this but it wasn't free to the store, so someone paid for it. After all, it was Munster Cable brand.

Selling for a large retailer is a matter of "pushing boxes", not selling what each customer needs. That actually requires skill. Pushing boxes only requires knowing when to ask for the sale and knowing what products have the highest profit or the biggest spiff.